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Speaker 1: about messy love, difficult conversations for deeper connection. We're living

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Speaker 1: in a time where people are more connected than ever before,

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Speaker 1: yet so many of us feel deeply disconnected in our relationships.

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Speaker 1: We have access to endless information, constant communication, and more

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Speaker 1: tools than ever to improve our lives. We set goals

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Speaker 1: for our careers, our health, our routines, and our personal growth,

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Speaker 1: but rarely do we pause to reflect on how we love,

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Speaker 1: how we listen, and how we show up for the

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Speaker 1: people closest to us. Many of us were never taught

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Speaker 1: what healthy love actually looks like. We weren't taught how

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Speaker 1: to communicate when emotions run high, how to repair after conflict,

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Speaker 1: or how to feel safe being honest without fear of loss. Instead,

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Speaker 1: we carry patterns from our past into our presenting. Things

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Speaker 1: will somehow work themselves out, and when relationships feel messy, confusing,

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Speaker 1: or painful, we often blame ourselves or the other person,

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Speaker 1: without realizing that most of what we're experiencing is learned behavior,

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Speaker 1: not personal failure. Today, I want to share five powerful

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Speaker 1: relationship lessons from my new audible original Messy Love, Difficult,

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Speaker 1: conversations for deeper connection. My hope is that these are

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Speaker 1: not just ideas for you to think about, that active

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Speaker 1: practices you can bring in to your real life relationships.

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Speaker 1: In my Audible original Messy Love, I sit down with

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Speaker 1: three different couples over three sessions each. Together, we explore

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Speaker 1: how to build emotional safety, navigate conflict, and rebuild trust

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Speaker 1: in their relationships. I'll walk you through five core principles

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Speaker 1: from the series, and after each one, offer you a

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Speaker 1: simple exercise you can try for yourself, whether with a

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Speaker 1: romantic partner, a family relationship, or any bond that holds

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Speaker 1: value for you and to hear how these tools come

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Speaker 1: to life. Make sure to check out Messy Love, available

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Speaker 1: only on Audible. Audible's well Being collection has everything to

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Speaker 1: inspire and support you in every step of your well

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Speaker 1: being journey. So let's get started. Principal one is all

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Speaker 1: about influence, respect, and recognition. Early in the series, I

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Speaker 1: meet amanden Ryan, a couple who feel out of sync

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Speaker 1: in their schedules and emotional connection with one another. I

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Speaker 1: quickly identify that beneath their frustration is a shared desire

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Speaker 1: to feel influence, respect, and recognition from one another.

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Speaker 2: For what they do.

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Speaker 1: When we don't feel seen or valued, we start to

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Speaker 1: build resentment, not because we don't care, but because we

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Speaker 1: don't feel safe to keep giving. Let me share a

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Speaker 1: moment from my conversation with Amanda and Ryan that really

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Speaker 1: captures what this looks like in real life. As you listen,

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Speaker 1: notice how both of them aren't actually arguing about tasks

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Speaker 1: or schedules. They're wrestling with something deeper, the need to

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Speaker 1: feel valued and understood in the relationship. Hearing Ryan and

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Speaker 1: Amanda share, it's becoming clear to me that the underlying

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Speaker 1: core issue is respect, recognition, and influence. In any relationship,

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Speaker 1: people aren't really arguing just about the finances. They're arguing

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Speaker 1: about do I have an influence in the decisions we make.

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Speaker 1: People are not just arguing over what roles they do

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Speaker 1: or how many chores they have. They're arguing over how

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Speaker 1: much respect they feel. And ultimately, everyone wants to feel

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Speaker 1: recognized by their partner for the work they put in,

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Speaker 1: and so that's at the core of this relationship. Thank

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Speaker 1: you both for being so vulnerable, and I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: This is the reality of what we're all dealing with,

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Speaker 1: which is we like each other we love each other,

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Speaker 1: things make sense, but there's the realities of life, whether

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Speaker 1: that be financial, emotional, mental, and as I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: you both, when we really get beneath the surface, it

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Speaker 1: seems like less of a income conversation and more of

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Speaker 1: an influence, respect and recognition conversation. And I mean, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: you just said totally straight away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it took a lot of years to understand,

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Speaker 3: like when things happen, it's not personal, Like if I

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Speaker 3: feel like she took a low blow, understanding that like

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Speaker 3: it's not her legitimately wanting to hurt me, as just

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Speaker 3: her protecting herself in the same way that I do

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Speaker 3: it in my way when I get insecure, when I

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Speaker 3: feel less than, my natural reaction is to get angry

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Speaker 3: and like loud and big, because then I don't feel weak.

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Speaker 2: What are your exact roles right now?

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Speaker 1: I get the sense overall, but what are your exact

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Speaker 1: roles right now? And how have you learned to place value?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like in those heated moments there's an unequal

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Speaker 1: value on certain roles.

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Speaker 4: Now, I generally go to Ploate's or work out before

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Speaker 4: I teach because I need to like set myself up

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Speaker 4: for the day. And because by nine o'clock my phone,

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Speaker 4: like I have a work phone and obviously personal phone,

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Speaker 4: the amount of people needing my attention is so intense

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Speaker 4: that I really like those hours. So usually before Ryan

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Speaker 4: and Piggy wake up, I've already worked out and like

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Speaker 4: taught two classes, and I'm already like well into my

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Speaker 4: day late morning or midday. That's where little chaos comes in,

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Speaker 4: as if Ryan and Piggy have gone for a walk

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Speaker 4: and I come home and I'm a little bit of

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Speaker 4: a tornado, and then I go to the wellness center

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Speaker 4: and I see patients.

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Speaker 3: She's kind of always a tornado because everything's stacked. If

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Speaker 3: the smallest little glitch in the schedule happens, things start

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Speaker 3: to fall apart.

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Speaker 5: I'm the support role. Back to what you're asking.

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Speaker 4: Traditionally, i'd be like in the fifties.

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Speaker 3: Like the man that goes kind of joke about that

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Speaker 3: that I'm more of the homemaker, and I make everything

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Speaker 3: run around the house and all of the errands and

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Speaker 3: the store and things like that, you know, and she

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Speaker 3: works and in those moments where she's flustered and busy

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Speaker 3: and like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that,

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Speaker 3: and I'm trying to like like make her some food

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Speaker 3: and make this and gather this. Another thing that happens

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Speaker 3: a lot when she's like that. She'll just be barking

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Speaker 3: orders and do this, do that, and like where is this?

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Speaker 5: Where is that?

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Speaker 3: So now I'm freaking out having an anxiety attack because

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Speaker 3: I can't find this piece of paper or we ran

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Speaker 3: out of this and she needs that. And so that's

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Speaker 3: where the resentment builds up, is like I do so much,

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Speaker 3: but in this moment, you'll make a comment like I'm

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Speaker 3: not doing enough. And all this other stuff that I

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Speaker 3: did that you have no idea that you know helped

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Speaker 3: your day out and made it more efficient. You're going

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Speaker 3: to harp on this one thing, and now I have

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Speaker 3: to feel bad about that.

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Speaker 1: What you're hearing there isn't really about who does more.

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Speaker 1: It's about what happens when appreciation turns into accounting. When

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Speaker 1: recognition fades, resentment fills the gap. Here's an exercise I

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Speaker 1: want you to try. For the first set of the exercise,

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Speaker 1: I invite you to ask yourself, in what moments do

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Speaker 1: you feel seen and recognized in your relationship? And then

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Speaker 1: when do you feel invisible? Or overlooked, like you aren't

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Speaker 1: being seen and recognized in that connection. Notice what comes

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Speaker 1: up for you, then see if you can share this

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Speaker 1: information with the other person in your life. I want

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Speaker 1: to start with something that sounds obvious but changes everything.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people think the foundation of a romance

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Speaker 1: relationship is chemistry, But chemistry is the spark. The foundation

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Speaker 1: is respect. And here's how you can tell the difference

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Speaker 1: between a relationship that feels exciting and a relationship that

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Speaker 1: actually feels safe. In a healthy relationship, you feel respected, recognized,

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Speaker 1: and influential, not in charge, not dominant, influential, like your

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Speaker 1: presence matters, like your feelings register, like your voice changes

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Speaker 1: the room. Because love without respect doesn't feel like love.

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Speaker 1: It feels like anxiety with good memories. The respect part

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Speaker 1: is really important. Respect isn't just being polite. Respect is

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Speaker 1: how someone treats your reality. Do they take your feelings seriously?

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Speaker 1: Do they handle your boundaries like they matter? Do they

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Speaker 1: speak to you like you're someone they're proud to be with,

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Speaker 1: especially when they're an There's a reason respect is such

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Speaker 1: a big deal in research. Respect is one of those

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Speaker 1: things you don't appreciate until it's missing. Because when respect

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Speaker 1: is missing, everything starts to feel personal. A joke feels

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Speaker 1: like a jab, A disagreement feels like dismissal. A boundary

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Speaker 1: feels like you're asking for too much. And here's a modern,

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Speaker 1: very twenty twenty six reality. A lot of women aren't

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Speaker 1: breaking up because they stopped loving someone. They're breaking up

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Speaker 1: because they got tired of being handled casually. The relationship

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Speaker 1: didn't end in one big betrayal. It ended in a

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Speaker 1: thousand tiny moments of disrespect. The eye roll, the sarcasm

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Speaker 1: that you're too sensitive, the I forgot that happens every

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Speaker 1: time it's important to you. Respect is the difference between

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with you and I don't.

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Speaker 2: Take you seriously.

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Speaker 1: No, oh, it's the difference between those I don't agree

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Speaker 1: with you as respectful, I don't take you seriously as personal. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's talk recognition, because this is where so many relationships

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Speaker 1: quietly fail. Recognition is the feeling of my partner gets me,

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Speaker 1: not just my highlight reel, not just my cute side,

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Speaker 1: not just my social self me. In psychology, there's a

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Speaker 1: concept called perceived partner responsiveness. It's basically the science version

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Speaker 1: of I feel seen. It means you feel your partner

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Speaker 1: understands you, cares about you, and appreciates you. And here's

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Speaker 1: why this matters. When you don't feel recognized, you start performing.

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Speaker 1: You start editing yourself, you start picking your words carefully,

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Speaker 1: you start managing your emotions so you don't ruin the vibe.

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Speaker 1: And you can call it being chill, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: being alone while in a relationship. Recognition is what makes

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Speaker 1: love feel like a place you can and exhale. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people I speak to say some version of this.

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Speaker 1: They say they love me, but I don't feel known,

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Speaker 1: or they're there, but I feel invisible. And in real

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Speaker 1: life dating culture, recognition looks like simple things. They remember

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Speaker 1: what stresses you out without you having to remind them.

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Speaker 1: They notice when your energy changes. They don't make you

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Speaker 1: explain the same emotional pain twice. That's recognition, and it's

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Speaker 1: rare because it requires attention. Now here's the piece that

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Speaker 1: changes the whole game. Influence influences When your partner is

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Speaker 1: open to being affected by you, not controlled by you,

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Speaker 1: affected by you. This is where the Gotman research is powerful.

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Speaker 1: John Gotman's work on couples consistently points to the importance

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Speaker 1: of accepting influence, being able to say, in small, daily ways,

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Speaker 1: your opinion matters. I can be moved by you. I'm

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Speaker 1: not in a power struggle with you. And Gotman's team

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Speaker 1: has written about how in heterosexual relationships, a common predictor

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Speaker 1: of long term stability is whether the man can accept

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Speaker 1: influence from his partner, meaning he can soften, consider adjust,

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Speaker 1: and share power rather than turning everything into a standoff.

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Speaker 1: Let me make this very modern and practical. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people think influence means I get my way. Nope,

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Speaker 1: influence means I don't feel like I have to fight

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Speaker 1: to be considered. It's the difference between being with someone

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Speaker 1: who listens and being with someone who only hears you.

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Speaker 1: When you've reached to a breaking point, influence shows up

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Speaker 1: in tiny moments. You say something bothered you and they

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Speaker 1: don't argue it out of it. You make a request

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Speaker 1: and they don't treat it like an attack. You bring

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Speaker 1: up a need and they don't punish you with withdrawal.

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Speaker 1: When influence is missing, people start doing what they're famous

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Speaker 1: for doing. They start adapting. They get quieter, they get easier,

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Speaker 1: they get more low maintenance, and everyone thinks the relationship

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Speaker 1: is better now until they leave, not because they stopped

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Speaker 1: loving them, but because they stopped feeling like themselves. Here's

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Speaker 1: the cultural trap, being cool versus being respected. Here's a

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Speaker 1: trend I want to call out gently because it's everywhere.

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Speaker 1: So many women have been taught to be the cool girl,

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Speaker 1: the unbothered one, the easy one that I'm not like

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Speaker 1: that one. But the truth is being low maintenance is

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Speaker 1: not the goal. Being highly respected is because love is

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Speaker 1: not earned by shrinking. Love is sustained by mutual care.

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Speaker 1: If you have to downplay your needs to make someone

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Speaker 1: love you, that isn't love, that's emotional rent. If you're

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Speaker 1: listening right now and thinking, okay, but how do I

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Speaker 1: know of this is my relationship? Here are three questions

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Speaker 1: that cut through the noise. One do I feel respected

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Speaker 1: when we disagree, not when we're in love mode, when

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Speaker 1: we're in conflict? Do I feel recognized on my hard days?

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Speaker 1: Or am I only lovable when I'm convenient? And number three,

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Speaker 1: do I have influence or do I have to escalate

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Speaker 1: to be heard? Do I need to cry, threatening to

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Speaker 1: leave or shut down for my feelings to count? Because

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Speaker 1: if your relationship requires emotional extremes, to produce basic consideration.

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Speaker 1: It's not intimacy, it's instability. So here's what I want

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Speaker 1: to share about Principle one. Respect is how love stays safe,

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Speaker 1: Recognition is how love stays seen, and influence is how

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Speaker 1: love stays equal. Now, Principle two is all about scorekeeping.

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Speaker 1: This is another key principle that plays out with Amanda

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Speaker 1: and Ryan and is at the root of so many couples.

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Speaker 1: I mean, keeping happens when we track what the other

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Speaker 1: person did or didn't do and quietly use that information

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Speaker 1: to build a case against them. But over time this

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Speaker 1: internal scoreboard can turn into resentment and emotional distance. Scorekeeping

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Speaker 1: makes us adversaries. Shared understanding makes us partners, and when

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Speaker 1: couples begin naming what they value in each other instead

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Speaker 1: of what's missing, the emotional tone of the relationship changes

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Speaker 1: almost immediately. In my work, I've noticed that contribution usually

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Speaker 1: shows up in five areas financial, mental, physical, emotional spirit.

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Speaker 1: Conflict often happens when two people are giving generously, just

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Speaker 1: in different currencies, and because those currencies aren't named, both

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Speaker 1: people feel depleted and misunderstood even use. Sometimes, conflict often

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Speaker 1: arises when someone feels they are overgiving in one area

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Speaker 1: and under receiving in another area without naming it. So

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Speaker 1: here's an exercise. Your next step is the same one

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Speaker 1: I asked Amanda and Ryan to do. Ask yourself, in

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Speaker 1: what areas of your relationship do you feel like you

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Speaker 1: are overgiving and under receiving? And in what areas do

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Speaker 1: you feel your undergiving and over receiving. Share your findings

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Speaker 1: with your partner and see if you can make any

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Speaker 1: alterations to find a more balance in your relationship and

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Speaker 1: school keepings often very unlabeled and random. It can be

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Speaker 1: I planned the last three dates. I always text first.

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Speaker 1: I was there when they were struggling, but where were

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Speaker 1: they when I needed support? Pologized they didn't. Scorekeeping doesn't

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Speaker 1: usually start with resentment. It starts with imbalance, and imbalance

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel dangerous at first. It feels annoying, but over time,

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Speaker 1: small mental talies turn into emotional distance. And here's the

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Speaker 1: part that's uncomfortable. Scorekeeping feels justified because most of the

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Speaker 1: time it is the reason we keep score. From a

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Speaker 1: psychological perspective, is humans are wired for fairness. Research in

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Speaker 1: social psychology shows that people are deeply sensitive to perceived inequity.

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Speaker 1: When one partner feels they're investing more than their receiving,

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Speaker 1: relationship satisfaction drops significantly. Equity theory basically says we don't

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Speaker 1: just want love, we want fairness, and when something feels unfair,

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Speaker 1: your brain flags it. That's not pettiness, that's biology. But

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Speaker 1: here's where it gets complicated. Fairness in relationships is rarely mathema.

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Speaker 1: It's emotional. One person might be carrying more financially, carrying

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Speaker 1: more emotionally, carrying more mentally, and the imbalance might be

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Speaker 1: temporary or chronic. The problem isn't noticing imbalance. The problem

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Speaker 1: is turning it into a silent ledger. Let's make this

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Speaker 1: reel for twenty twenty six. Scorekeeping today looks like tracking

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Speaker 1: who initiates plans, Noticing who says I love you first

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Speaker 1: and more often, watching who shares their story on social media,

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Speaker 1: counting how long it takes for someone to reply, mentally

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Speaker 1: logging who compromised last. It sounds small, but it changes

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Speaker 1: the emotional tone of the relationship because once you start

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Speaker 1: keeping score, you stop giving freely. You give to balance

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Speaker 1: the sheet, and that shifts love from generosity to transaction.

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Speaker 1: John Gotman's research on relationships found something fascinating. Couples don't

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Speaker 1: survive becase they split everything fifty to fifty. They survive

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Speaker 1: because they respond to each other's bids for connection. A

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Speaker 1: bid can be small, look at this? Can I tell

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Speaker 1: you something? Are you okay? Healthy couples turn toward those

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Speaker 1: bids about eighty six percent of the time. Unhappy couples

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Speaker 1: around thirty three percent. Not because they're evil, because they're tired,

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Speaker 1: because they feel unseen, because they're already keeping score. And

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Speaker 1: when you're keeping score, you start missing bids on purpose.

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Speaker 1: Oh now you want my attention, Oh now your affectionate,

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Speaker 1: Oh now you care. Scorekeeping turns connection into revenge. Scorekeeping

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Speaker 1: feels powerful, it gives you evidence. But here's the truth.

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Speaker 1: Scorekeeping is usually unspoken resentment, and unspoken resentment becomes emotional withdrawal.

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Speaker 1: You don't scream, you don't leave, You just start caring

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Speaker 1: a little less. You stop initiating, you stop softening, stop breaching.

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Speaker 1: Not because you don't love them, because you're protecting yourself

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Speaker 1: from feeling foolish. So what's the alternative? This is important.

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Speaker 1: The solution is not to ignore imbalance. The solution is

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Speaker 1: to address it directly instead of storing it. Scorekeeping thrives

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Speaker 1: in silence. Healthy love says I'm feeling stretched here. I

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Speaker 1: need more support. I notice what you're giving me here,

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Speaker 1: But I do feel like I'm carrying this alone. That's

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Speaker 1: not nagging. That's clarity, because once resentment builds, you're not

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Speaker 1: negotiating needs, You're negotiating wounds. The next thing I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about is conflict styles in messy Love.

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Speaker 1: The second couple I meet is gladys In Justin, who

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Speaker 1: are having a difficult time with the way they communicate

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Speaker 1: and trust in one another. I shared with them three

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Speaker 1: core fight styles or conflict styles, venting, I want to

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Speaker 1: fix this right now, hiding, I need space and time

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Speaker 1: to reflect on my feelings, and exploding what happens when

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Speaker 1: the first two go unheard. Here is a moment where

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Speaker 1: I introduced this idea to gladys In Justin. As you listen,

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Speaker 1: notice how naming the conflict style immediately lowers the temperature. Often,

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Speaker 1: when we finally speak up, we speak louder, but not clearer.

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Speaker 2: When I say louder, I don't mean you're shouting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more confident, but it doesn't mean confidence. Is

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Speaker 1: clarity in is that person really able to understand what

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Speaker 1: we're saying. That's why this exercise of that trigger and

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Speaker 1: reaction is so important, because what's happening is the trigger

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Speaker 1: is speaking louder, maybe not clearer, and the reaction is

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Speaker 1: minimizing and projecting value onto it. And that's where everything escalates.

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Speaker 1: What happens when it escalates, so you don't feel seen

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Speaker 1: and heard, Gladys Justin will say, can't believe we're here again,

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Speaker 1: It's too small. Why are we doing this? Where does

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Speaker 1: that go?

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Speaker 6: I just shut down, which is the next one, but

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Speaker 6: I just shut down. And then that's when he I

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Speaker 6: want to have a conversation. And at that point, I

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Speaker 6: don't want to have a conversation. It just becomes an argument.

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Speaker 6: And then the conversation becomes very defensive. And then at

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Speaker 6: some point that is probably the biggest thing, Like I

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Speaker 6: feel it in my chest when this happens. I get

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Speaker 6: so angry that I'll just scream and be like I

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Speaker 6: don't care anymore. Just get off my phone, like I

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Speaker 6: don't even care, I don't want to talk to you,

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Speaker 6: walk away, and I start becoming really rude.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's when we've we've already gone too far

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Speaker 1: where it's like it's unsavable at that point that conversation

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Speaker 1: because tensions high, there's loads of emotion, and we've lost

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Speaker 1: that rational part of us that has the ability to

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Speaker 1: just in your thoughts on that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's pretty accurate.

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Speaker 2: And it happens on both behalfs.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 7: There's sometimes where we'll show shut down and then I

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Speaker 7: do the same, and then we just don't talk and

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Speaker 7: then there's like that awkward silence and then somebody breaks

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Speaker 7: the ice. Most of the time it's me, you know,

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Speaker 7: coming to try to figure it out, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so what we're really speaking about here is

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Speaker 1: that in terms of your communication challenges, the communication challenges

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Speaker 1: for Gladys is saying what you really want when you

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Speaker 1: want it, and being really clear about it and for

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Speaker 1: it not to be a trigger. I think the challenge

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Speaker 1: is when we only communicate when it's triggered, it's no

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Speaker 1: longer communication. It's now a trigger. That's why we call

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Speaker 1: it that. And I think communication is actually there's nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong right now, and there's nothing that I'm agitated right now,

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Speaker 1: And in this piece, I'm actually going to share what

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Speaker 1: I want. If I communicate when i'm not triggered, Chances

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Speaker 1: are I won't trigger the other person. But if I

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Speaker 1: only communicate when I'm triggered, chances a I'm going to

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Speaker 1: lead to a reaction. And I think for yourself in

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Speaker 1: that justin if you're only reacting to a trigger, you're

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Speaker 1: going to have a reaction. But for you to break

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Speaker 1: this cycle, we've got to make sure that you're able

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Speaker 1: to even if Gladys gets triggered, to be able to

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Speaker 1: approach it in a form of validation and making her

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Speaker 1: feel seen and heard. And so there's responsibility and accountability

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Speaker 1: on both sides because we don't want to get to

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Speaker 1: the escalation point, because that's the point of an over return,

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Speaker 1: where repairing from that is a lot harder. When we

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Speaker 1: understand how we fight, we stop assuming it's about whether

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Speaker 1: we care. Here's a moment where we go deeper into

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Speaker 1: triggers and how quickly reactions can spiral when clarity is missing.

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Speaker 1: Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns we learn to protect ourselves.

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Speaker 1: But when those patterns go unnamed, they collide. The goal

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Speaker 1: isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to understand it well enough

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Speaker 1: that repair becomes possible. Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns.

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Speaker 1: We learn to protect ourselves, but when those patterns go unnamed,

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Speaker 1: they collide. The goal isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to

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Speaker 1: understand it well enough that repair becomes possible. For this exercise,

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Speaker 1: I invite you to identify which fight style is most

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Speaker 1: common for you in you your relationship. Then consider why

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Speaker 1: you think this style developed and whether any adjustments could

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Speaker 1: be made. Are you a fixer, a venor, or an exploder.

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Speaker 1: Most relationships don't fall apart because of big betrayals. They

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Speaker 1: fall apart because of how two people fight or don't fight.

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Speaker 1: Your conflict style is the invisible script you run when

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Speaker 1: something feels off. It's how you react when you're hurt,

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Speaker 1: when you're misunderstood, when you're disappointed. And most of us

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Speaker 1: didn't choose our style, we inherited it. Here's what's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Research shows that conflict is not predictive of divorce. Avoidance

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Speaker 1: of repair is Gotman's work shows it's not about whether

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Speaker 1: you argue, it's about whether you repair quickly. Do you

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Speaker 1: soften after, do you circle back? Do you say I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean it that way? Or do you stay in

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Speaker 1: ego Here's the hard question. Ask yourself, when we fight,

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Speaker 1: do I feel closer after or more alone? Because conflict

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Speaker 1: styles don't term incompatibility repair does. It's not about finding

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Speaker 1: someone who you never argue with, It's about finding someone

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Speaker 1: who stays with you even after you argue. Principle number four.

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Speaker 1: The final couple we meet in Messy Love, My audible

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Speaker 1: original is Jeremy and Richard, who are deeply in love

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Speaker 1: and committed to growing together, but working through very different

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Speaker 1: communication styles. This is something I see quite often in

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Speaker 1: my work with couples and can be incredibly frustrating Without

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Speaker 1: a solution for this, I offer the XYZ method, a

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Speaker 1: simple framework for expressing needs without blame or judgment. It

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Speaker 1: goes like this, when you X, I feel why how

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Speaker 1: can we work together to get to Z? Let me

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Speaker 1: share a moment where I introduce this framework to Jeremy

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Speaker 1: and Richard.

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Speaker 2: The challenges.

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Speaker 1: As humans, we all internalize all statements. So most people

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Speaker 1: when they hear this statement you don't understand me. What

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Speaker 1: we hear is you're not an understanding person. Right, I'm

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Speaker 1: not an understanding person. And then what the person on

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Speaker 1: the receiving end does is think of all the ways

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Speaker 1: in which they are an understanding person. Hey By, But

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I understood when you had that doctors.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait a minute, I understood when we were with JA.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, the way you want to share it

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Speaker 1: is very specific. When you do X, I feel why

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Speaker 1: how can we get to Z? We can use this

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Speaker 1: framework that is evolved from many solution focused therapies to

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Speaker 1: be really specific.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's how we want to try and have that conversation

431
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: moving forward, because the other challenge we all say to

432
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: our partners is we all say, you always do this,

433
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: and you never do that, right. You always leave the

434
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: dishes unclean, you never organize vacations for us to go on,

435
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: And so we speak in finality and completeness as opposed

436
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: to when you leave the dishes uncleaned, very specific when

437
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: not always not when you leave the dishes uncleaned. I

438
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: feel you don't value me, whereas you could have just

439
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: said that you don't make me feel valued, and that

440
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: lands completely differently. You just don't value me, And now

441
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: the person, what do you mean I don't value I

442
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: just made you coffee this morning, I took the dog

443
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: for a walk, I cooked as.

444
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: Dinner last night.

445
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: What do you mean like, no, you don't value me,

446
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: the dishes were unclean last night, and now you've already

447
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: lost the argument when you do X, I feel why

448
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're taking accountability for your feeling

449
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and you're being specific to clear up when you feel

450
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: that way, and then the person gets an opportunity to

451
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: explain how those two things are not connected. So what

452
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: I want you to do, Richard, is I want you

453
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: to express something to Jeremy. You may have done something before.

454
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: I want you to take something you shared in anger

455
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: or flippantly, or something you shared without this process. Maybe

456
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: you said you don't value me. Maybe you said you're

457
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: careless with money, and I want you to now say

458
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: it with this new rhythm, a new script.

459
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 8: I was just kind of thinking about, like when that

460
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 8: typically happens, it's usually around like cleaning the house.

461
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 5: On That's where my mind went to first. And I'm

462
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 5: a very clean person.

463
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 8: I just want to state for the record, but he's

464
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 8: freakishly obsessively clean. I don't think you're a dirty person

465
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 8: at all. I think you can be messy. And when

466
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 8: I spend a lot of time making our house nice

467
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 8: and clean and lovely, like a hotel.

468
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 5: I and when.

469
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, so now I want to use the script.

470
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: So how would Richard have said that before today? How

471
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: would Richard have said that? How would you say this

472
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: without the script?

473
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 5: God, why can't you just wipe that up? You're a

474
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 5: dirty slob?

475
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 8: Or like God, I just cleaned up, deep cleaned the

476
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 8: whole house, and like you're you know, making a sound

477
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 8: when you can't even wipe up the crumbs.

478
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 5: He will get bothered by me eating food after he's

479
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 5: going to deep clean.

480
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 8: But like, I don't mind, just like wipe down the counter,

481
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 8: there's like crumbs. How would you set when when you

482
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 8: do these kind of things? Do you when you leave

483
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 8: the crumbs on the counter after I cleaned?

484
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 5: I deep cleaned our home.

485
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 8: I feel like you don't value the love and work

486
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 8: that I put into our household to make it nice

487
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 8: for us.

488
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 5: So how do we get to the Z?

489
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? What can we do?

490
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: Well?

491
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: What do you need at that point to get to Z?

492
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 8: Well, in order for me to get to ZEE, I

493
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 8: would want you to be more mindful when you've noticed

494
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 8: that I took a lot of time out of my

495
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 8: day to make our home the way it is. Sure, Yeah,

496
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 8: that so much better, though, That would make me feel valued.

497
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 8: Sure that you know you appreciate all the hard work

498
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 8: that I.

499
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 5: Do for our household.

500
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: Here's where we take that XYZ method and apply it

501
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: in real time. So what makes the XYZ method so

502
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: powerful isn't just the words themselves. It's the space it

503
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: creates between reaction and understanding. So often in relationships, we

504
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: think we're arguing about the behavior, but what we're really

505
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: fighting is the meaning we've attached to it. The moment

506
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: we assume intention, the conversation becomes about who's right instead

507
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: of what's true. The XYZ method helps us untangle that.

508
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: When you X anchors us in observation, not interpretation, it

509
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: asks us to describe what happened, not what we think

510
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: it says about our partner. When you say I feel why,

511
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: it reminds us that emotions are not weapons, they're signals.

512
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: And when we take responsibility for our feelings, we stop

513
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: asking our partner to defend themselves and instead invite them

514
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: to understand us. Finally, when you say how can we

515
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: get to Z? That shifts the energy completely. It transforms

516
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: conflict from a courtroom into a collaboration. For this exercise,

517
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: think of a point of frustration in your relationship and

518
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: attempt to communicate with the other person using the XYZ model.

519
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: Make sure you feel heard, then create the space for

520
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: the other person to do the same. Let's talk about

521
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: something that sounds simple but quietly determines whether a relationship

522
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: deepens or deteriorates. Communicating your feelings, not your opinions, not

523
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: your analysis, not your sarcasm, your feelings. But here's the truth.

524
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: Most people think they're communicating their feelings when they're actually

525
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: communicating their conclusions, and those are very different things. When

526
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: something hurts, most of us don't say I felt ignored.

527
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: We say you never listen. When we feel insecure, we

528
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: don't say I'm feeling anxious, we say you don't care.

529
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: That shift from feeling to accusation changes everything. Here's the

530
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: hard question. Ask yourself, when I'm hurt, do I communicate

531
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: to be understood or do I communicate to win? Because

532
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: these two intentions create completely different outcomes. And our final

533
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: principle today comes from my conversation with Justin and Gladys.

534
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: Lasting change feels overwhelming when we think in terms of forever,

535
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: but when we focus on just thirty days, trust becomes

536
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: achievable again through small, consistent actions. So what I suggest

537
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: to them is to create a thirty day agreement.

538
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: Sharing a moment.

539
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: Now where I introduce this idea to just in a

540
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: glad is as you listen, notice how the energy shifts

541
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: when the focus moves from forever to just the next

542
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: thirty days. For the remainder of this session, I want

543
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: to focus in on creating what I see as a

544
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: thirty day agreement that you both make together that becomes

545
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: a rolling agreement, which is an agreement to everything that

546
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: you both just mentioned, the growth, the love, the connection.

547
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: But we want to do it with practical terminology.

548
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is, well, how often

549
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: do we want to talk, what do we want to

550
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: talk about? How often do we want to meet and connect?

551
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: Let's structure that. Let's create what our current boundaries are

552
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: and where we want to stop them, because what we

553
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: don't want it to become is that right now you

554
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: both feel really clear that it's not time to get

555
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: back together. It would be too early, it would be

556
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: too rushed, it would be too forced. And we want

557
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: to get to a point where we don't rush into

558
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: it or fall into those moments. But that you both

559
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: are able to progress, and so I want you to

560
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: talk about what a thirty day agreement would look like.

561
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: It's like, what are we both signing up for in

562
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: terms of time for connection, in terms of space, in

563
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: terms of how often we're getting together, and in terms

564
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: of whatever our boundaries. So we okay, we may spend

565
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: one or two three days together in a row, but

566
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: then gonna need two days off, like I'm gonna you know,

567
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and then that can change. That agreement

568
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: becomes something that you come back to, but actually the

569
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: next thirty days, I'm willing to spend one more day together.

570
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: And it becomes like that guideline I gave you for

571
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: the three part communication. It's that whenever emotions take over

572
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: in either direction, you have something to turn to and

573
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: you both keep each other accountable to that you're not

574
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: making a commitment for the next twelve months. It's a

575
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: thirty day agreement that again, what I would encourage you

576
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: to do in thirty days is to sit down and

577
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: do this again together as if I was there, and say, Okay, well,

578
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: this is what went well, this is what didn't work.

579
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: Maybe we didn't spend enough time together, Maybe we just

580
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: spent too much time together, maybe there was this, and

581
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: so then you create a new agreement and it's thirty days,

582
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: which means you're not signing a contract for life or

583
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: I think that's sometimes what's so hard about relationships. As

584
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: we make these big decisions, we're like, oh, we're just

585
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: going to move back in together and figure it out,

586
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, okay, well what does that look

587
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: like in thirty days and sixty days? And so this

588
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: patient approach is healthier for Laer, it's healthier for both

589
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: of you, as you've both talked about. And so if

590
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: right now you're both signing up to no other romantic partners,

591
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: it's a thirty day agreement. If that changes in ninety days,

592
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: it's something you can update each other on and move on.

593
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: But at least there's clarity and you both have a

594
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: transparent approach to it.

595
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 6: I agree, Yeah, I don't know why imagining it has

596
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 6: to be like a three page agreement.

597
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: You know, to be honest, the simpler and the less

598
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: the better. To me, it's not about how many points

599
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: you have on it. It's more about having the key

600
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: things that move the needle for both of you and

601
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: checking in with how you feel. So yeah, I would

602
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: say I would like you both to like write this

603
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: out in your words together. It would be a great

604
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: activity to do together as your homework, print it out,

605
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: keep it somewhere really really clear. Or you both have

606
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: the same print out the same words you've chosen those

607
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: words together, and ideas for each as well. You know,

608
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: you may find that going out for brunch and dinner

609
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: is nice, but then you want to add other activities

610
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: and things and trips or whatever else that includes. I

611
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: think getting language downright so that you both feel really

612
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: clear about it and you know what you're honoring would

613
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: be something I would recommend you both do after this together.

614
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 2: Does that feel good?

615
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 6: This feels really good.

616
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: The beauty of the thirty day contract isn't in grand promises.

617
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: It's in small, consistent actions that rebuild trust slowly and intentionally.

618
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: Trust isn't restored through intensity, It's restored through repetition. Here's

619
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: an exercise. Create a thirty day contract with the other

620
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: person in your relationship. In the agreement, be short to

621
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: include these three things. One, identify your core pillars, what

622
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: are integral to the relationship, what they are, and what

623
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: they mean to you. Two set realistic commitments and boundaries

624
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: that you both feel good about. Number three, revisit and

625
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: renew your agreement regularly. This is a working document and

626
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: not a one undone deal. These five principles are just

627
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: a few of the powerful insights you'll hear in my

628
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: audible original Messy Love. For much more where that came from,

629
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: please check out Messy Love exclusively on Audible. Check it

630
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: out at audible dot com, forward slash messy Loove. Thank

631
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: you for listening. Remember I'm forever in your corner and

632
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: always rooting for you.