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Speaker 1: where you're not identifying with the love or the mistreatment,

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Speaker 1: you're just like, here's who I am. Here's the intention,

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Speaker 1: the motivation that I know I'm acting on and that

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Speaker 1: I know that's coming from a good place. And So

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Speaker 1: whether they're saying Jay, You're amazing, or they're saying Jay,

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Speaker 1: you're the you know you're awful, you're screwing this up,

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Speaker 1: you suck, You're just like, I'm gonna do what I

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Speaker 1: have to do as long as I'm able to do it. Hey, everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to un Purposed, the number one health podcast

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Speaker 1: in the world. Thanks to each and every single one

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Speaker 1: of you that come back every week to listen, learn

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Speaker 1: and grow. Now, today's guest is someone that I've interviewed,

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Speaker 1: not once, not twice, not three times, But this is

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Speaker 1: the fourth time we're sitting down together. The first time

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Speaker 1: was at half Post back in like twenty sixteen, when

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Speaker 1: I was just starting a lot of my online work.

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Speaker 1: Then we did in Nazadac Reads probably around twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty eighteen, and then I got to sit down

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Speaker 1: with him on the podcast. You've already loved him on

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Speaker 1: the show just last year. I think it was just

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Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and then now we are having our

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Speaker 1: fourth ever interview. I'm talking about the one and only

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Speaker 1: Ryan Holiday. Ryan Holiday is one of the world's best

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Speaker 1: selling living philosophers. His books like The Obstacle Is the Way,

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Speaker 1: Ego Is the Enemy, The Daily Stoic I have all

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Speaker 1: reached number one New York Times best seller status, and

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Speaker 1: Stillness Is the Key appears in more than forty languages,

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Speaker 1: and all of his books have sold more than four

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Speaker 1: million copies. Together. They've spent over three hundred weeks three

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Speaker 1: hundred weeks on the best seller lists. He lives outside

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Speaker 1: Austin with his wife and two boys and a small

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Speaker 1: herd of cows and donkeys and goats. And he also

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Speaker 1: opened up his own bookstore, which I love. The Painted

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Speaker 1: Porch sits on the historic main street in Bastard, Texas.

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Speaker 1: And his new book, The Courage Is Calling already in

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Speaker 1: New York Times Bestseller. If you haven't read it, I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend that you go and grab it. Ryan, like

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Speaker 1: you did for so many others, you opened up our

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Speaker 1: minds and lives to the teachings of the Stoics, which

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Speaker 1: I am eternally grateful for because I think you've broughte

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Speaker 1: so much wisdom through that we would have missed out on.

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Speaker 1: And you also in many ways inspired me to think

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Speaker 1: about how I could do something similar for Vedic philosophers

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Speaker 1: and thoughts. So thank you from a personal level, a

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Speaker 1: collective level, societal level for I've seen you do a

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Speaker 1: lot of activism work too. But Ryan, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show now. Thanks for having me. And it's crazy

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Speaker 1: we do go way back, and I think both of

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Speaker 1: us had somewhat circuitous journeys to where we are now.

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Speaker 1: Like you interviewed me on two different shows before you

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Speaker 1: had your own show. I did a bunch of stuff

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Speaker 1: before I was a writer. To me, I in case

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Speaker 1: people don't pick up on what that means, is like

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Speaker 1: just because you're not like very rarely does anyone just

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Speaker 1: get to start like by having their own platform or

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Speaker 1: putting out their own thing, and you have to take

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Speaker 1: jobs or do things get to work your way there.

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Speaker 1: And I think people who are in the middle of

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Speaker 1: that sometimes you don't know where it's going to end up.

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Speaker 1: You can kind of lose faith. But I think in

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Speaker 1: both of our cases, like we put in the work,

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Speaker 1: paid our dues, and we did get there, and I

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Speaker 1: hope that's encouraging to people because it's amazing. It always

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Speaker 1: takes longer than you think it should, but eventually you

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Speaker 1: get there. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember talking to you about like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you started in marketing, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: talk about your time that American apparel, And then I

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Speaker 1: also remember talking to you about how you're the Leonardo

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Speaker 1: DiCaprio right is where you've written all these amazing books

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Speaker 1: that were epic and you were waiting for this, you know,

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Speaker 1: the arbitrary idea of ranking on the list, and I

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Speaker 1: you know, I think we were talking about that last

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Speaker 1: time when we were messaging, and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio has been nominated for an Oscar seven tons

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Speaker 1: and only one once and that's pretty much the same

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Speaker 1: as you. And it's just one of those amazing things

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Speaker 1: that all your journey has brought you to this pace.

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Speaker 1: And now when you look back at your beautiful portfolio

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Speaker 1: of books and I know that Courage is Calling is

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Speaker 1: the part of a new set of four books. I

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Speaker 1: really like that you started with that point that we've

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Speaker 1: known each other through a lot of different faces, a

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Speaker 1: lot of different names, a lot of different banners, And

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Speaker 1: you know, today it's beautiful to sit with you and

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Speaker 1: do this again. But you know it started very differently.

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Speaker 1: But I have to be honest, I've had fun with

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Speaker 1: you since day one, so I'm expecting this to be

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Speaker 1: no different. Well, you know people talk about like ten

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Speaker 1: thousand hours, right, it takes ten thousand hours to get

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Speaker 1: to mastery. I think two things are easy to miss.

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Speaker 1: Their number one, it's not ten thousand hours of terrible,

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Speaker 1: grinding labor. It should be fun. And I had a

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Speaker 1: ton of fun along the way too. Just because it

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Speaker 1: might take ten thousand hours or it could take twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand hours or one hundred thousand hours to actually get

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Speaker 1: to the place where you've really truly mastered it, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't make a great living between

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Speaker 1: now and then, and that you can't do work that

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Speaker 1: you're proud of that stands up like I'm this is

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Speaker 1: my I think twelfth book. I'm proud of all the

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Speaker 1: books in between, but the twelfth book is only possible

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Speaker 1: because of the eleventh and the tenth, and the ninth

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Speaker 1: and the eighth. And the idea should be that you're

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Speaker 1: on this journey and that you're getting better as you go,

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Speaker 1: even though you are, you know, not ideally where you

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Speaker 1: want to be, but you're you're having fun along the way,

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Speaker 1: as you said, absolutely, And I wanted to start off

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Speaker 1: somewhere before we dive into all the wisdom and the

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Speaker 1: insight and the practice is I wanted to know what

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Speaker 1: does it feel like as an author during the pandemic

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Speaker 1: to have opened your own bookstore called the Painted Points

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Speaker 1: like that it seems like a really it's like being

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Speaker 1: an artist and then opening your own art gallery, right

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Speaker 1: and with other people's art in it as well as

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Speaker 1: yours of course, Tell what does that feel like? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was very exciting at first. I think right around

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Speaker 1: the time I saw you last that was when I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about doing it, and we'd sort of made

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Speaker 1: some of the initial decisions to do it. And then

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Speaker 1: I believe we'd hired our first employee in February of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, so it was all very exciting, and then

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Speaker 1: it got very terrifying and very real and very overwhelming

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Speaker 1: quickly because the whole world shut down, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we thought it would be a project that

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Speaker 1: would take a year, and it took two years, and

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Speaker 1: that was obviously more expensive than intended and scarier than intended,

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Speaker 1: but it also was an opportunity to take it slow,

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Speaker 1: to do it right, to really think about why we

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Speaker 1: were doing it and how we wanted to do it,

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Speaker 1: And then it gave us a whole other sense of

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Speaker 1: what the meaning of it was. Right, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, hey, bookstores are important because it's a place

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Speaker 1: people go. You can be around other people, you can

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Speaker 1: talk about things. And then when you when we were

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Speaker 1: looking at a world where that was not possible, you

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Speaker 1: suddenly realize what those things mean to you and you

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Speaker 1: don't take them so much for granted anymore. So it

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Speaker 1: was really it was a very trying and challenging experience,

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Speaker 1: to be sure, but the upside was it made the

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Speaker 1: rewards of it so far, you know, much more compelling

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Speaker 1: and meaningful. I think, yeah, I love that. It's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: It's wonderful hearing that you know you've got through and

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Speaker 1: you've figured it out, and I'm sure it's been harder

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Speaker 1: than it needed to be, but it sounds wonderful, and

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Speaker 1: I hope I get a visit, so I really look

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Speaker 1: forward to actually going now I've never been never been

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Speaker 1: able to go to a bookstore and say, my friend,

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Speaker 1: my friend owns this and he's a writer. It's cool.

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Speaker 1: So I really loved I mean, books are such an

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Speaker 1: amazing thing. Like if you think about what a book is, right,

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Speaker 1: like a book is ten years or a lifetime of

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Speaker 1: work and understanding bound between two covers for like twenty dollars,

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Speaker 1: Like it's this incredible piece of technology that's you know,

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Speaker 1: now endured for thousands of years. That I just books

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Speaker 1: have been so important in my life. Obviously, there's there's

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Speaker 1: different businesses I would open if what I was interested

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Speaker 1: in is making more money a bookstore in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: let alone during a pandemic is you know, like not

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Speaker 1: not the best. But I think, you know, I have

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Speaker 1: a podcast too, and there's something amazing about reaching millions

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Speaker 1: of people at scale digitally throughout the world. But there

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Speaker 1: is also something special about holding things and having a space,

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Speaker 1: and so I just it. My wife and I were

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Speaker 1: just thinking, like, you know, we've been so blessed, We've

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Speaker 1: got to do so many cool things. What is something

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Speaker 1: that could be fun could also be a business opportunity,

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think improve the community in which

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Speaker 1: we live. And that that's kind of what I've just

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Speaker 1: been thinking about out more lately, is like, not everything

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Speaker 1: has to be like how do I reach as many

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Speaker 1: people as possible? It could also be like how do

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Speaker 1: you really reach the people the smaller amount of people

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Speaker 1: that you are reaching? Yeah, I count agree with you more.

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Speaker 1: For me as well, it's always been about scale and depth,

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Speaker 1: scale and depth, and it's like, you know you have scale,

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Speaker 1: but how can you go deep with that scale? But

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Speaker 1: then also how can you scale down and take people

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Speaker 1: even on a more meaningful and deeper journey more personally.

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Speaker 1: And I was able to do that even digitally during

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. We a lot of me and my private

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Speaker 1: coaching clients, people that I work with one on one,

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Speaker 1: we started this like small meditation communities for them and

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Speaker 1: their families or them and their friends on zoom and

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Speaker 1: I was teaching I'm used to teaching, you know, meditation

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Speaker 1: on Instagram live, to you know, hundreds of thousands or

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Speaker 1: millions of people after people watch it on the replay,

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Speaker 1: and to actually just sit on a zoom which is

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Speaker 1: ten faces every single week was beautiful, Like it's it's

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Speaker 1: been some of the most meaningful work I've ever done,

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Speaker 1: and you're spot on, So I get that. Now I

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Speaker 1: want to start. I've got so many questions to ask

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Speaker 1: you run so, and we've just been chatting so and

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Speaker 1: to like, actually, everyone's gonna be like, what are you

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Speaker 1: guys doing? Jays just having a conversation, which is partly

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Speaker 1: what I'm doing. But I want to find out you

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Speaker 1: introduced stoicism to the world in a huge way, massively,

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Speaker 1: like you know, really brought it out beyond where I

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Speaker 1: think it had been at least from my knowledge, at

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Speaker 1: least for me definitely, And I wanted to understand, like,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us the story of how you discovered

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Speaker 1: stoicism and how that first moment made you feel and

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Speaker 1: why you felt compelled to share with the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world. I think a lot of what we're doing,

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Speaker 1: you and I are doing is sort of paying it forward, right,

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Speaker 1: Somebody introduced you to the ideas and they hit you,

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Speaker 1: and you had this amazing sort of life changing transformation

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Speaker 1: because of that, and then there's this kind of moment

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Speaker 1: where you go, could I do that for someone else?

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Speaker 1: And then we're talking about skill earlier, how did I

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Speaker 1: do that? Like even better? How could I do that

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Speaker 1: to How could I take what I experienced and not

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Speaker 1: just do it to the people that I physically interact with,

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Speaker 1: but millions of people. So I was in college and

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Speaker 1: I went to this conference in West Hollywood and the

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Speaker 1: speaker was doctor Drew from from HLN and from love Line.

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Speaker 1: Now he has a wonderful podcast as well, and he

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Speaker 1: was speaking and I had grown up listening to love Line,

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Speaker 1: and so I remember at that age I would whenever

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Speaker 1: I would meet smart people that I admired or that

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Speaker 1: I had some you know, random circumstances to me, I'd

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Speaker 1: be like, what books do you recommend? Because I was

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Speaker 1: just just thinking, there's so many books out in the world.

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Speaker 1: How do you know which ones to read? And if

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Speaker 1: you just I was thinking, if I just read the

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Speaker 1: ones that really smart people that I admire have read,

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Speaker 1: I'll be like skipping all the stuff that you know.

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Speaker 1: It'd be like a It's like getting you know, notes

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Speaker 1: from from from people ahead of you. And so um

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Speaker 1: I asked him, and he told me he was reading

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Speaker 1: the writings of Epictetus, who is this Roman slave. And

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Speaker 1: I went back to my hotel room and I bought

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Speaker 1: Epictetus and I bought Marcus Surrealius because I'd seen the

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Speaker 1: movie Gladiator and h and these two books arrived and

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Speaker 1: they they hit me. I read Marcus Arelius first. Actually here,

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Speaker 1: let me grab this is mine now, fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: copy of Meditations. I've had to retape the cover on

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Speaker 1: because I've read it so many times. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: you read Meditations, and it just it hit me. It

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Speaker 1: hit me like a million bricks. I mean, in the

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Speaker 1: in the first line of Meditations, he says, and this

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Speaker 1: is like one of my he says, when you awake

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Speaker 1: in the morning, tell yourself. The people I will deal

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Speaker 1: with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly.

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Speaker 1: And he says they are like this because they can't

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Speaker 1: tell good from evil. And then but he goes, but

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Speaker 1: they can't implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel

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Speaker 1: angry at my relative or hate him. We were born

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Speaker 1: to work together, like feet and hands and eyes. To

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Speaker 1: feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him,

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Speaker 1: these are obstructions. And I I just remember being hit

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Speaker 1: by that, going like the Emperor of Rome wrote this,

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Speaker 1: like he just wrote a note to himself about how

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Speaker 1: frustrating and annoying people are going to be, but that

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Speaker 1: he couldn't let this change him or make him angry,

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Speaker 1: and that he had this obligation to work together with them.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I was taking philosophy classes at the time,

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Speaker 1: but it was nothing like this, Like when you read Aristotle.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely good parts in it, but you're

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Speaker 1: also like, what is he talking about, right, Like he's

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Speaker 1: explaining the universe or something He's not saying like this

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Speaker 1: is how you deal with a jerk in traffic, or

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Speaker 1: you know, this is how you deal with your obnoxious roommate, right, Like.

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Speaker 1: I just love that Marcus rus was being so real

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Speaker 1: and so practical, but at the same time trying to

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Speaker 1: be great, like trying to be decent and good and

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Speaker 1: patient and just that was transformative for me. And eventually,

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Speaker 1: you know, got to a place where I thought maybe

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Speaker 1: I could write stuff like this, or I could write

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Speaker 1: about stuff like this, And that's been the journey for

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Speaker 1: me now for a decade and a half. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love that. Thank you for sharing that so much, and

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Speaker 1: I love so much about what you just said. So

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Speaker 1: first of all, I want to point out to everyone

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Speaker 1: who's listening. I love that you went up to someone

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Speaker 1: and asked, what books do you recommend? Because that's such

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Speaker 1: a great question because ninety nine percent of people don't

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Speaker 1: go up, and the one percent of people that do

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Speaker 1: go up, they go up and say, how can I

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Speaker 1: spend more time with you? Or how can I connect

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Speaker 1: with you? Or how can how can we have dinner

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Speaker 1: or lunch or whatever it may be, And the answer

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Speaker 1: ninet nine percent of the time is I don't think

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Speaker 1: I have time for that, Like I'm not sure that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. I'd love to, but it's it's not possible.

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Speaker 1: And so by asking them what books they're reading, you're

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Speaker 1: tapping into their mindset for days, weeks, months, years. You

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Speaker 1: would never get time and access to someone that inspires

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Speaker 1: you in that way. And thank you for so much

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Speaker 1: for reading the first one. I mean, anyone who listens

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Speaker 1: to that, you're just like, I want to live like that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's how you feel. Straight away you go, I

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Speaker 1: want to live like that. I want to share with

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Speaker 1: you the biggest news of the year. How many of

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Speaker 1: you want to meditate? I can see your heads nodding,

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Speaker 1: I can see you raising your hands, I can see

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Speaker 1: you saying, yes, Jay, I really want to learn to meditate.

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Speaker 1: How many of you would like to learn to meditate

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Speaker 1: with me? Every single day? Now? I already know what

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Speaker 1: the answer is because I know how many messages DMS

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Speaker 1: reviews notes that I get saying Jay, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: meditate with you. Last year, we took meditation to Instagram

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Speaker 1: and I meditated for around forty days live and twenty

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Speaker 1: million of you tuned in. Now I am taking that

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Speaker 1: same focus, that same presence to Calm. I've partnered up

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Speaker 1: with Calm to release a new series called The Daily

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Speaker 1: J where you can meditate with me every single day

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Speaker 1: for seven minutes to make it a real habit. I

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Speaker 1: would love for you to come and join me and

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Speaker 1: take part in building a really powerful meditation practice. And

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Speaker 1: guess what we're going to do it together? Head over

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Speaker 1: right Nowtcalm dot com forward slash J to get forty

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Speaker 1: percent off a premium membership. That's Calm dot com Forward

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Speaker 1: slash J. Well, the crazy thing about the book question

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Speaker 1: is so like even today, you know, I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of emails from random people which saw very nice.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be able to respond to all

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Speaker 1: of them. But somebody was like, Hey, I'm struggling with depression,

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Speaker 1: what's a book you would recommend? And I would like

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Speaker 1: took me two seconds to reply, right, And like that,

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Speaker 1: of all the emails today, that's the one that I

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Speaker 1: responded to because I love books and if that's an

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Speaker 1: easy way I can help a person. But the crazy

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Speaker 1: thing about the doctor Drew story was like three months later,

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Speaker 1: I went to a different conference and he was there again.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how, I don't know how the odds

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Speaker 1: of it worked, but I went up to him and

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Speaker 1: I was like, you probably don't remember me, but I

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Speaker 1: read those books, right, And he was like, I do

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Speaker 1: remember you, but I did not think you were going

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Speaker 1: to read those books. And he and I are friends now,

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Speaker 1: like twenty years later, fifteen years later, we still know

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Speaker 1: each other because I didn't just get the recommendation, but

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Speaker 1: then I actually did the work, like I read the book,

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Speaker 1: and now he and I have this connection forever. And

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Speaker 1: I think the amount of people that like asked me

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Speaker 1: for recommendation versus the amount of people I hear back

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Speaker 1: from who have actually taken the time to read the book.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a small percentage of a small percentage.

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Speaker 1: And so these books are out there, these books that

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Speaker 1: have changed people's lives, people have been through the exact

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Speaker 1: same thing that you've been through. They're there, but no

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Speaker 1: one can read them for you. Yeah really, well, I said,

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Speaker 1: And this leads us nicely to courage is calling that

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Speaker 1: you know, the new book because to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have this perception that to have a great life

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Speaker 1: we need to be brave, we need to be courageous.

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Speaker 1: But you actually start the book at fear, And I

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Speaker 1: think what's fascinating about that is a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have the fear, or we think we lack the courage

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Speaker 1: to go up to someone and ask a question. Then

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Speaker 1: we fear taking the step of ordering the books because

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Speaker 1: we're thinking, oh, well, when will I get time to

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Speaker 1: read them, and they're just going to become a doorstopper,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe I'll feel worse about myself or maybe

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Speaker 1: we get beyond that, and we order them and then

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Speaker 1: we fear reading them. We go, oh, no, well, that

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Speaker 1: may need me to change, or that may need me

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Speaker 1: to shift, or I may have to give up some

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Speaker 1: luxury or some comfort that I'm used to. There's fear

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Speaker 1: at every single step walk us through how fear can

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Speaker 1: be something that is necessary, but it's also just Will

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Speaker 1: you make an important point about courage which I really

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Speaker 1: tried to build a book around, which is that courage

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Speaker 1: is not just running into battle or a burning building

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Speaker 1: or jumping out of an airplane or you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just physical danger, and it's not always dramatic. Right,

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Speaker 1: So there's physical courage and moral courage. Moral courage is

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Speaker 1: also the courage of a whistleblower or a truth teller

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Speaker 1: or a transgressive artist. But it's also just the courage

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Speaker 1: to like walk up and talk to a stranger, or

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Speaker 1: a courage to start your own podcast, or the courage

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Speaker 1: to put yourself out there or to you have this,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, the decision to cut your hair

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Speaker 1: a certain way and not give a shit what anyone thinks, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's also this really small day to day courage. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't it's not always this dramatic, glorious thing. And I

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Speaker 1: think you're right, Like a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: really basic things in our life come down to a

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Speaker 1: failure of courage. Even even you think about people who

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Speaker 1: are afraid to true try something, not because they're afraid

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Speaker 1: of failing, which they probably are, but also just afraid

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Speaker 1: of of success, right, like a afraid of what changes

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Speaker 1: would be demanded or what it would mean to then

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Speaker 1: have to wrestle with this thing. And so it's it's

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Speaker 1: not that we don't know what we should do, it's

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Speaker 1: that we have a million reasons why we shouldn't do

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Speaker 1: it right, right, That's what fear is. Fear is the

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Speaker 1: thing that gets in the way what Stephen Presfield calls

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Speaker 1: the resistance between you know, what we can be and

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Speaker 1: where we are. So it's not that courageous people do

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Speaker 1: not feel those fears, it's that they push past them. Right.

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Speaker 1: The things we want in life are on the other

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Speaker 1: side of that fear, Like all good things in life

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Speaker 1: require courage. I would imagine there's very little that anyone

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Speaker 1: listening could think of in their own life that they're

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Speaker 1: proud of that did not some triumph over fear. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: everything that I'm proud of in my life was something

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Speaker 1: that I had to push myself out of my comfort

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Speaker 1: zone to get. Yeah. Absolutely, no, I think you're spot on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, when I'm thinking about that right now,

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Speaker 1: and I hope everyone who's listening or watching is thinking

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Speaker 1: about that too. I can't think of I can barely

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Speaker 1: think of anything, if anything at all. And so you

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Speaker 1: know that aligns very strongly, and I like you know.

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Speaker 1: In the book, there's the part that you wrote that says,

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Speaker 1: and there has never ever been a time when the

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Speaker 1: average opinion of faceless, unaccountable strangers should be valued over

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Speaker 1: our own judgment. And I love that because I think

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Speaker 1: we're living at a time when faceless, unaccountable strangers dictate

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Speaker 1: everything in our lives, whether it's a comment, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a DM, whether it's a you know, a message and email.

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Speaker 1: Walk us through why is it that we take unaccountable

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Speaker 1: facing the stranger is so seriously that why does that exist? Look,

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Speaker 1: it's not like this just some modern thing. Right. In Meditations,

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Speaker 1: Mark Surreali says, the crazy thing is we all love

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Speaker 1: ourselves more than other people. We're all self interested, selfish people.

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Speaker 1: It's a certain degree, right, And he says, and yet

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Speaker 1: we value other people's opinions more than our own. Right.

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Speaker 1: You see this sweatshirt you like, and you buy it

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Speaker 1: and then someone's like what's that. You're like, Oh, you

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Speaker 1: don't like it. I shouldn't like you know, like or

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Speaker 1: you spend on the other end of the spectrum. You know,

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Speaker 1: you spend two years writing a book and then you go.

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Speaker 1: But but did the critics accept me? Did the publisher

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Speaker 1: like it? You know, you can even find yourself is

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Speaker 1: it any good? And it's like, who is this person

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Speaker 1: to decide that it's any good? You're the way, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is why you do what you do, and yet

430
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: we hand over approval success to other people, and like,

431
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: look when when the obstacle is the way it came

432
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,239
Speaker 1: out to just to sort of illustrate this idea that

433
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: nobody knows anything. The publisher offered me half what they'd

434
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: offered me for my first book for what was my

435
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: second book. So right out of the gate, I had

436
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: the idea for the Obstacles the Way, and the publisher

437
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: said that idea is half as good as your last idea.

438
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: They like, they did not believe in it. Look, they

439
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: believed in it enough to purchase it, but they did

440
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: not have high hopes. A close friend of mine I

441
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: found out later predicted that it would sell five thousand

442
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: copies right it came out. It didn't hit the best

443
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: seller list. The weekly came out, it sold like maybe

444
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: thirty thousand copies in the first six months, maybe sixty

445
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: thousand in the first year, did not hit a best

446
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: seller list for the first five years of its existence,

447
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: and then ultimately has gone on to sell, you know,

448
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: about a million and a half copies. So the success

449
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: of that book, if I was judging it based on

450
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: what other people said, would have been a failure, would

451
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: have been a disappointment, would have been and mediocre at best.

452
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: But what I knew is that it was one something

453
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: was really important to me. Two, I knew it was

454
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: something that because it had been so important to me,

455
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: that with time it would resonate with people. And then

456
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: three it was pleasurable and exciting and rewarding for me

457
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: to do, and so kind of everything beyond that was

458
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: extra and I moved on to other projects and let

459
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: it do what it did. So the fact that it's

460
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: now had all this success is one is a wonderful

461
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: bonus on top. But that that wasn't why I did it,

462
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: Because if it was why, if that was what had

463
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: been motivating me from the beginning, I never would have

464
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: done it because it would have been killed the second

465
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: the offer came back from the publisher and they said,

466
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, and that is how it works in life. There.

467
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: You know, people are often worried about somebody stealing your idea.

468
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: And there's a great line from a physicist whose name

469
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting, but he said, don't worry about that. He says,

470
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: if it's an original idea, you're gonna have to ram

471
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: it down people's throats because people aren't going to get

472
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: it at first. Everything that's new, exciting, innovative, important was

473
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: unappreciated or outright despised when it came out. So you

474
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: have to be able to cultivate this sense of why

475
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: you're doing what you're doing, why it's valuable, why it's important,

476
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: what it means to you. And you have to get

477
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: to a place where you're a little bit indifferent, which

478
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: is a stoic term, meaning that if people love it, great,

479
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: If they hate it, that's okay too, but you have

480
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: your own sense of it and that's what allows you

481
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: to sort of ignore both of those things. Yeah. No,

482
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: that indifference I find so fascinating because when you first

483
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: hear it, it sounds like there's no fun, and it

484
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: sounds like there's no joy, but actually when you live it,

485
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: it's liberating, and I find that there's something really fascinating.

486
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: I remember first coming across that when I was around

487
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: probably like twenty years old. I was the president of

488
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: a youth organization back in London, and I took on

489
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: this role at about eighteen years old. I was given it.

490
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: I didn't audition for d didn't apply for it. I

491
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: was given it. And for two years my life was

492
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: held because everything I did was massively criticized because it

493
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: wasn't as good as the previous president and so. And

494
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: I didn't knew nothing about leadership. I mean, you know,

495
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: leadership is a really big, complex, conscious, thoughtful thing. I

496
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: was eighteen, didn't know anything anyway. For two years, everything

497
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: I did was criticized, it was really cuted, it was compared,

498
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: and I started to feel really bad about myself. But

499
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: the one thing I held onto was that everyone's criticizing

500
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: me for my management, but not for who I am.

501
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: And I held on to that very closely. I was like, Okay,

502
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm a bad manager, I'm a bad leader. I'll take

503
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: that all day. No one said I'm a bad person.

504
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold onto that. And then something really

505
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: fascinating happened. We had a fundraiser when I was about

506
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: twenty years old, and that fundraiser, I like outperformed where

507
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: I've raised lots of money for this really important foundation

508
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: and all this, and all of a sudden, the same

509
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: people were like, Oh my god, Jay, You're like the

510
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: best thing in the world and you're incredible. And it

511
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: was that day that I promised myself that I would

512
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: remain indifferent. And I promised myself, I remember it's still

513
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: now to anyone promising myself going I am not going

514
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: to let the opinions of other people make me feel

515
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: good or bad. And that doesn't stop me from feeling

516
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: joy because I get to feel good for myself when

517
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I've done something right. Does that Does

518
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: that feel right? Yeah? Totally. It's kind of similar to

519
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: in meditation, Right, you have these thoughts and you realize

520
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to identify with the thoughts. They can

521
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: just exist, right, like a cloud exists and it's there

522
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: in your view and then it drifts off and you

523
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: don't really know what happens to it, right, And I

524
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: think this is where we want to get with success

525
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: as well as criticism or failure or worse, right, like

526
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: being attacked undeservedly. Marxurrealiz talks about being able to accept

527
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: success without arrogance and let the rest go with indifference.

528
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: And I think if you can get to a place

529
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: where you're not identifying with the love or the mistreatment,

530
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: You're just like, here's who I am. Here's the intention,

531
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: the motivation that I know I'm acting on and that

532
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: I know that's coming from a good place. And so

533
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: whether they're saying Jay, You're amazing, or they're saying Jay,

534
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: you're the you know you're awful, you're screwing this up,

535
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: you suck. You're just like, I'm going to do what

536
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: I have to do as long as I'm able to

537
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: do it, and I'm not gonna identify either way. And

538
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: I think, you know, people sort of nod their head

539
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: along with this. It's easy to identify with the success

540
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: on the way up. But then what happens to those

541
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: people is what happens when you inevitably screw up, run

542
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: into bad luck, or whatever you think about an athlete,

543
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: if it is identifying with the hot streak that they're on, well,

544
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: statistically that's just not gonna last, right, And so you

545
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: have to become you have to understand that you're gonna lose,

546
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: that you're gonna miss, you're gonna screw up, and you

547
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: if you're in a place where you identify with those

548
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: external results, you're you're really really vulnerable and you're going

549
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: to be really unhappy, especially in those dark, those dark,

550
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: dark moments. Yeah, so Ryan, then what do we do

551
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: with fear? If everyone's listening and watching that they're going

552
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: through the fears that we know that they are, what

553
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: do we do with fear? I feel like it's such

554
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: a we're almost scared of the emotion in and of itself,

555
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: and then we panic. Well, the Stoics obviously believe in

556
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: the power of reason, right, and a lot of fear

557
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: you can say is unreasonable, right, Like you think about failure. Right,

558
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: Let's say you're putting out a book. I'm putting out

559
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: a book and you're like, what if it doesn't do well? Right,

560
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and you're sort of scared of this? What the Stokes

561
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: would say is what if that happens? Like, what does

562
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: it actually mean? Right? Not like oh this this vague,

563
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: unpleasant thing, but what does that look like? Well, you

564
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: already got paid for it, you already did the thing, right,

565
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: Like actually it failing is nothing. It doesn't matter at all, right,

566
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: Like it's not what you would choose, but you're not

567
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: going to end up under a bridge. They're not going

568
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: to tar and feather you or something, right, Like, there's

569
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: there's no consequences, and so this is a really important thing.

570
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: I remember when I was dropping out of college, I

571
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: was so scared about it, and I was so convinced

572
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 1: that I shouldn't do it because I was afraid of

573
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: what might happen. And I remember one of my mentors goes,

574
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, he says, like when I when I was

575
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: in college, I got sick for a year and I

576
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: spent he spent a year in the hospital. And I

577
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: was like, and what happened? And he was like, it's

578
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: literally not come up once in my life. He's like,

579
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: I graduated in five years instead of four years. He's like,

580
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: the worst thing that could happen here is that you

581
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: just go back to school and you have to make

582
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: up for the time that you missed. And that was

583
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: really important, right, to break down the thing that you're

584
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: afraid of, to really think about the worst case scenario. Right,

585
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: people are afraid of that. I have stage fright, right,

586
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: I don't like talking in front of crowds. Literally, what

587
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: is the worst thing that could happen? A bunch of

588
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: strangers you'll never meet again, don't like you, Like, You'll

589
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: be totally fine. And so part of what we should

590
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: do with fear is really break it down, because sometimes, hey,

591
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm peering over this cliff that someone's telling me to

592
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: jump off of. Maybe that's a really bad idea. Right,

593
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes you use the power of reason and it reminds you, oh,

594
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: this is a bad idea. I can't afford to lose this.

595
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: But most of the time we break those fears down,

596
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: and then we're better able to manage that fear because

597
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: we have a rational understanding of it instead of this

598
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: sort of irrational emotional understand standing of it. Yeah, and

599
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: it's incredible once you break through that fear. How now

600
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: you're looking at it and you're like, I can't believe

601
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: I was ever scared of that, right, isn't Isn't that

602
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: just such a fascinating trick of the mind that as

603
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: soon as you break something that felt insurmountable, now when

604
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: you've overcome it, you're almost laughing at yourself, like, how

605
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 1: was that the thing that he would be back. Well,

606
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: so each time you do something that you were afraid of,

607
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: you push through. You have more confidence, right, You have

608
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: a like dropping out of college made it easier for

609
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: me to then leave my corporate life later to become

610
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: a writer, right because it was like, oh, I could

611
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: just go get another job, or I could get the

612
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: same job again. Right, And so you not only get

613
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: a certain amount of confidence from it, but you also

614
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: get a better understanding of how things work. The problem

615
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: is when you give into fear, not only do not

616
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: do the thing now, you actually have less information about

617
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: how the world works. And so you know, there's that

618
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: sort of cliche about do one thing free day that

619
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: scares you. It's actually pretty good advice. Right, You're sort

620
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: of building the muscle, You're building that ability to override

621
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: the This seems scary, but I'm going to do it anyway.

622
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: I think cultivating that ability to sort of push through

623
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: that fear is really important. And I think again, these

624
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: sometimes can be very pedestrian fears. It's like, I remember

625
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: the decision for Daily Stoic, which is one of the

626
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: things I do, the decision to like make videos, right, Like,

627
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: and I remember talking to you about this. It's like

628
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: I was very comfortable writing things, I was very comfortable

629
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: being on stage, but the idea of making a video, like,

630
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: I was just scared it would be bad. I would

631
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I think I was really scared of being uncomfortable in

632
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: a new thing, and but pushing past that, it's opened

633
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: up this sort of whole avenue for us. But then also,

634
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, the decision to make sort of long form

635
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: videos also made it easier to be like, oh, TikTok's

636
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: this thing now I can You know, what you're cultivating

637
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: is the ability to be comfortable being uncomfortable and knowing

638
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: that you'll figure it out and eventually get comfortable again. Yeah.

639
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 1: And what I find so fascinating about what you just said, Ryan,

640
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: is that even when we make big leaps, or we

641
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: break through, or we find the courage, it's so easy

642
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: to get comfortable again. Like, it's fascinating, isn't it. Like

643
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: I remember when so when I went off to become

644
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: a monk, obviously I broke that barrier completely. I was like,

645
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: I don't care if I get a job, it doesn't matter.

646
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: So I felt extremely confident and courageous, Not that I

647
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: use those words, but that's what I would have felt

648
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: at the time. And then when I left being a monk,

649
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: it was a tough time, but again that was a

650
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: tough decision, so that built more courage and confidence. Then

651
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: I found a job. But as soon as I got

652
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: into a job, I remember leaving that job. I mean

653
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: I left it within two years. But it's like there

654
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: was a moment that that comfort started to feel really safe.

655
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: And comfort is like really alluring, It's it's really mesmerizing,

656
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: and I find that comfort really convinces you that this

657
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: is it settled for this it's safer, it's better, it's happier.

658
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: What are the things that you do to build that

659
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: courage muscle every day, or do something out of your

660
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: comfort zone so that you don't get comfortable. Is there

661
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: something that you've been working on or something that you've

662
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: seen others do that you've spoken to on your podcast. Well,

663
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: this is the paradox, right We tell ourselves like, I

664
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: can't do it now. I'm gonna wait till I'm more

665
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: financially successful, and wait till I'm more well known. Nona,

666
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: wait till I put in more years, or then I'll

667
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: speak up. Then I'll put myself out there then I'll

668
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: take this risk. It'd be wonderful if it worked that way,

669
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: But in fact it's the exact opposite. Right. You think, oh,

670
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: after I've put ten years into this company, then I'll

671
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: put out this new idea. Then I'll but no, now,

672
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: you don't want to lose ten years of work, Right.

673
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: You'd think that financially the financially successful people would be

674
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: the most comfortable taking the risks. But they have the luxury,

675
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: the privilege of knowing exactly what it might cost them, right,

676
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: and they know how hard they had to work to

677
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: get there. And so this is why people are afraid

678
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: to be politically active. This is why people are afraid

679
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: to voice unpopular opinions. I'm sure you and I both

680
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: know people with platforms that have really strong opinions about

681
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: things that are happening in the world, but they just

682
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: don't want to get involved because they know how hard

683
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: it was to get where they are and they don't

684
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: want to lose that. And so you do have to

685
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: cultivate again to go to this kind of indifference. Like, look,

686
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: it's wonderful to have the audience, it's wonderful to have

687
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: the fancy stuff, but you didn't Like I say this

688
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: to people who sometimes get mad about things I say,

689
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: They're like, how could you say that? Didn't you understand you?

690
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: Would you make me angry or whatever? And look, I

691
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: didn't cultivate this platform to not say what I think. Right, Like,

692
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: the job is not having the platform. The job is

693
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: not this or that. The job is doing the thing right.

694
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: Is the speaking the truth, saying what needs to be said,

695
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: speaking to what I think is important, and so we

696
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: can really lie to ourselves. We can tell ourselves later

697
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, right, we say, oh, I

698
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: need to make some money first, and then I'm going

699
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: to you know, write that screenplay or do that thing

700
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: or whatever. You're not going to do it because then

701
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna be too comfortable. And so you kind of

702
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: have to see that comfort that like taking it for

703
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: grantedness as the enemy, because it's it's what makes you afraid.

704
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: You don't want to lose it. Yeah, I'm so glad

705
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: you said that. And I went through something similar recently

706
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: with some of my team where I was explaining to them.

707
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: They were saying, Jay, don't you think that's a risk,

708
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: And I was just like, well, I work this hard

709
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: so that I can take more risks like I had

710
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: to take risks to get here. And I'm only excited

711
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: if I'm able to take more risks and trying new

712
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: things out, because what was the point otherwise I'm already

713
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: living in bonus Land, right, like I'm ready with house money. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

714
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: You're living in a space that you're just I'm so

715
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: much more blessed than I ever thought I would be,

716
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: and so with that, I feel comes a bit more responsibility,

717
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: comes a bit more desire for risk. And I'm not

718
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: just talking about risk for personal growth. I mean I

719
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: mean to try things that I think are beneficial to

720
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: help others, to serve or do things that may be

721
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: unexpected of me, because I understand how that leads to

722
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: more impact or service. Yeah. There's a great story about

723
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson when he proposes passing the civil rights legislation

724
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: and one of his aid says, you know, maybe you

725
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: should wait till after reelection. They say this could be bad.

726
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: You know, it's going to be risky politically, and he says,

727
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: what the hell is the presidency for? Right? And it's

728
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: important to realize that literally, the most powerful man in

729
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: the world was struggling with And that's how seductive it is.

730
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: You get all the way to the top of whatever

731
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: it is that you're doing, and then there's reasons right

732
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't do X, Y or Z, And at

733
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: a certain point you have to say to yourself, what

734
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: was the point of all of this if I'm not

735
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: going to do what I care about, what I like,

736
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: what I love, what I think needs to be done.

737
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 1: And that's really what courage is about, the courage to say,

738
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: I'm not going to think about those consequences. I'm going

739
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: to do it because it is the right thing to do,

740
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: come whatever may. And there's no question that things I've written,

741
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: things I've said, things I've done, have cost me a

742
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: certain number of followers, let's say, which ultimately can translate financially.

743
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: But I'm proud of what I said. I'm proud of

744
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: what I put out. I can look myself in the

745
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: mirror and one of the questions I ask myself, and

746
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: I'd be curious if you think about this too, as

747
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: someone who didn't create the things that I write about,

748
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: Like stoicism is this way of thinking that's existed now

749
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: for twenty five hundred or so years and I happen

750
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: to be a well known sort of representative of that idea,

751
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: but it's not mine. And so the thing I tell

752
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: myself is the test I have is am I being

753
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: a good steward of that philosophy? And so if I'm

754
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: afraid to be the same thing for the presidency, You're not.

755
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: You don't own the presidency. You're just the guys or

756
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: woman sitting in that chair right now. And the question

757
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: is are you being a good steward of the office,

758
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: of the occupation of the opportunity or are you just

759
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: protecting what's good for you in the moment. And so

760
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: I think about, you know, is this the right thing

761
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: to do or talk about not? Is this going to

762
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: win me the most friends? Yes? Yeah? Absolutely? Yeah no,

763
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: And I think I ask a very similar question, Like

764
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: for me, it's you know, it is servitorship. It is

765
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: figuring out like to what degree, And a big part

766
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 1: of that for me has always been if I see

767
00:40:54,000 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: other people helping the world, how do I view them?

768
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting. I was sitting with my

769
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: team recently and like, there, you know, I think I've

770
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: always been a fan of yous and you've known that

771
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: from day one. But you know, it's like for me,

772
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: when I see other people who I believed to positively

773
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: impacting people's minds, I want to collaborate, connect do more

774
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: together because I feel like we need more of that.

775
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: And I was speaking to my team recently because I

776
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: was talking about collaborating with someone and they were saying, well, Jay,

777
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: you know like maybe there, you know, like maybe they

778
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: see as competition. And I was just like, well, why

779
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: would I compete with someone who's trying, who has the

780
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: same goal as me, it seems. And I think that's

781
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: how I try and measure where my intention is because often,

782
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, if I get lost in that hierarchy myself,

783
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: that's when you start to recognize that your intention isn't

784
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: as pure as you think it is. Well, this is

785
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: another thing. I think it requires a certain amount of

786
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: courage as far as one's worldview. What you're talking about

787
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: is deciding not to see the world as a zero

788
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 1: sum place. Right. So some people go through the world

789
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: into like this is about my career, it's about my success,

790
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: is about my family, right, it's about my business. And

791
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: there's no question that attitude, because it's so singularly focused,

792
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: can make you very successful, but I think it's more

793
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: enjoyable ultimately morally rooted to go through the world and

794
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: thinking about it as how does everyone win? How does

795
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: everyone get something out of this? And that was something

796
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: you know. I started my first email list, not talking

797
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: about my own work, but just recommending books that I've loved,

798
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: and I've done that now for since I don't know,

799
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen years. Like I hear just as often from

800
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: people who their lives were changed not by something I wrote,

801
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: but by a book from someone else that I recommended,

802
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: And that was a big breakthrough for me realizing, oh,

803
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: not only is it not zero sum, but that helping

804
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: other people just being a resource period also helps you.

805
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 1: And so I think, you know it's your podcast, like, look,

806
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: you could just make your own content every day, but

807
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: the decision to talk to and share other people's stuff

808
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: it benefits you and them. And I think the more

809
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: the more secure one can be in themselves, the more

810
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: helpful they can be to other people, and then ultimately

811
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: the more impact everyone can have together. Yeah. Absolutely, I

812
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: love that. Because I was sharing it someone recently, I

813
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: was like, you know, one of the and I feel,

814
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: this is what you've done with the Stoics and what

815
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: you were sharing for Marcus Aurelius. But you know, for me,

816
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: I've just always been fascinated by studying people's lives, always

817
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: been fascinated by studying, and I love studying people and

818
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: mindsets and decisions and choices. And I was thinking that

819
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: we all have to look at people, and we all

820
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: have two choices. You either study people or you envy people.

821
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: Those are the only practically two choices you have. If

822
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: you don't deeply study, there will be some comparison, some envy,

823
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: some criticism, some sort of unhealthy trait that comes out.

824
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: And if you study someone, then you appreciate, you, admire, you, honor.

825
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: And I know that in my life I would rather

826
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: live with admiration on an appreciation of others than the

827
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: other stuff. And so I naturally gravitate towards how can

828
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: I study someone's life? And when I see you studying

829
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: the Stoics, that's where you're doing. You're studying their life,

830
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: sharing your study and your notes with us. And to me,

831
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: it's almost like thinking, oh, you know, that person just

832
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: sold their house on our street for X amount of money.

833
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that house is not worth that much.

834
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't look that good. You're not realizing that the

835
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: whole value of the street just went up because of

836
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: that house. And I think that's where people don't recognize

837
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: that that collective good is always better than individual success. Yeah,

838
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: there's a great joke I heard that that envy is

839
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: the only sin that isn't any fun. Yes, right, Like

840
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: sex is fun, even overeating is fun. Right, All most

841
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: of the deadly sins are at least fun while you're

842
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: doing them. Yeah, envy sucks. No one is having less

843
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: fun than the person who is being eaten up with

844
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: envy and jealousy. And so the decision, and it does

845
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: have to be a decision, because I think there's probably

846
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: some evolutionary reasons why we feel envy. The decision to say, like,

847
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: I'm just going to be happy for people. I'm going

848
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: to help other people. I'm going to help other people

849
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: and not ask for anything in return. I'm just going

850
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: to try to put good stuff out in the world.

851
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to use my assets to help

852
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: other people, and I hope other people do the same.

853
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to be pissed off when that

854
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. That's a real lifestyle choice. And I've tried both,

855
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: and the other one is just it's not fun and

856
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't get you what you want, you know, being bitter,

857
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: being resentful, being closed off for selfish, it's it's not

858
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: fun totally. And and if and according to your line

859
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: of thought, which I which I like, is that if

860
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: there's an evolutionary purpose of envy, one of them potentially

861
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: could be to lead us to study, right, to study

862
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: what we envy. Like that that's something that could I

863
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: have no idea. That's not a you know, a factual thought.

864
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: It's just an idea that I'm having that. Yeah, like

865
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: envy would make you go, oh well, let me deeply

866
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: look at that, let me understand how that person got there.

867
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: Let me let me actually lead to study through that, right,

868
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: so it can be healthy and useful. Let's look at

869
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: the trade offs. Right. I think oftentimes too, the thing

870
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: the person that you're jealous of if you had to go,

871
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: but it's actually fun to be them, right, Like, I

872
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: think oftentimes we'll look at something that someone has and

873
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: we'll want that thing, so we'll be jealous of them,

874
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: but we don't understand that it's impossible to separate that

875
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: thing from all the other parts of them. And so

876
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: it may well be that it's a bad bargain, right,

877
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: and that the reason you don't have it is that

878
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: you understand that those other tradeoffs they made aren't worth it,

879
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: or perhaps they're impossible for you. And so I think

880
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: just really understanding, like what you want what you have,

881
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: That's that's another big part of it. To stoves talk

882
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: about like how you would be of yourself if you

883
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,479
Speaker 1: didn't have those things, right, or how sad you would

884
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: be if they went away, And so instead of being

885
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: jealous of other people, just step back and try to

886
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: practice some gratitude for what you have. These are all

887
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: ways I think of getting to a happier place. Yeah,

888
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: for sure, I wonder from you, what is something currently

889
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: that the two questions here, I'm gonna ask both of

890
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: them now and then you can take him. What is

891
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: the thing that you've been in the last twelve months

892
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: fearing the most? Is what has been a fear that

893
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: you've been tackling with? And then second question to follow

894
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: that up with is you know, what do you think's

895
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: personally the most courageous thing that you've done recently? And

896
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be huge, right, Like, that's the point.

897
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: I think I have easier time answering the first one

898
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: and the second one. But I have two young kids,

899
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: and so you go through something like this pandemic, what

900
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: you're really forced to grapple with, and there's a big concept,

901
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: is like just how much is out of your control? Right?

902
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: Like you care about these people, this thing more than

903
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: anything in the world, and yet you don't control it. Right.

904
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: It's they're running around, they're outside. And so I think

905
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: one of the things I've really had to grapple with

906
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: over the last eighteen months is anxiety, worry, right, a

907
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 1: certain amount of powerlessness, a certain amount of frustration with

908
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: just that we're in this mess as a society or

909
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: as a planet. And and so I think, you know,

910
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: when we talk about parenting, I don't think we talk

911
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: about courage enough. Right, So, first off, just to be

912
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: a woman who brings a child into the world is

913
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: an insanely courageous thing to do if you just think

914
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: about Like I mean, look, women die in childbirth all

915
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: the time, and yet women get pregnant all the time.

916
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: Like I think we've gotten so used to it, or

917
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: perhaps we just don't think about what an insanely courageous act,

918
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: it is. But then to be a parent in this

919
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: sort of crazy, messed up world. I think about all

920
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: the parents that I know. I just try to think

921
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: about all the parents in the world that have had

922
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: to endure this you know, insane disruptive life event that

923
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: has challenged us in so many different ways. It's been,

924
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's been. It's been a journey. And I

925
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: think when we think about what stoicism is, when we

926
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: think about what Buddhism is, or or or any of

927
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: these philosophical schools, they were designed precisely for these kinds

928
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: of events, Like the ancient world was. You know, people

929
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: talk about things going back to normal. This is normal.

930
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: This is what life was in the ancient world. This

931
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 1: is what life was like in our grandparents' lives. And

932
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: we're just we were just really really spoiled for a

933
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: long time, and now we're having to wrestle with Hey,

934
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: the world doesn't really care about you or your plans,

935
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to figure out how to accommodate

936
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: yourself to those things and managed to be happy and

937
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: productive and and you know, not a wreck inside of them. Yeah,

938
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: And do you do you genuinely believe and of you know,

939
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: pandemic aside, of course, because that's a huge, huge, huge

940
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: thing that obviously affected everyone on the planet. But do

941
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 1: you generally believe that a disruption of plans has led

942
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: to better plans, results, ideas, innovation, inventions. Look, no one

943
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: would say, like, hey, in America, you know seven hundred

944
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand people have died, that this is a

945
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: blessing in disguise, Right, that would be offensive. But we

946
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: add on top of the tragedy by refusing to change

947
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: or be changed by what's happened. Right. So, I don't

948
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: know about you, but this was an enormous forced lifestyle experiment.

949
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: We had to reimagine a lot of things. We probably

950
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't be doing this remotely, you know, if it weren't

951
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: for the pandemic. You know, there's things that you're talking about,

952
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: those meditation groups that you made, There's things you've created

953
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: as a result of the constraints of what was happening

954
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: in the world that are on net positives for you.

955
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: And that's certainly been the case for me. It's forced

956
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: me to reimagine, rework a lot of what I sort

957
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: of took for granted previously, I think coming out of

958
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: the pandemic, I'm not going to travel nearly as much,

959
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: not for safety reasons, but just realizing, Oh, I've been

960
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: going a mile a mile a minute for thirty odd

961
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: years of my life, and I was aware of what

962
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: I was getting out of it, but I was less

963
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: aware of what it was costing me or what it

964
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 1: was preventing me from doing. And so I think it's

965
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: not that the Stokes would say that everything terrible has

966
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: something wonderful inside of it, but that by wrestling with

967
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: what's happened, by looking for what we can do inside

968
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: of what's happened, we managed to excavate little bits of

969
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: positivity or opportunity for progress. And that's what the obstacle is.

970
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: The way is really about. Yeah, beautiful, and so we've

971
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 1: talked about fear, we talked about courage. The third part

972
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: of the book is the heroic and I find this

973
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: and I love that it's obviously towards the end, but

974
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: it's I found this fascinating because I think everything in

975
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: society makes us want to be a hero. Like the

976
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: movies I watched made me want to be like the

977
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: guy in the movies. The adverts would make me want

978
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: to be like the guy for me or you know,

979
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: for people the girl or that person in the ad

980
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: in the movie, in the book, in the story. But

981
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, you define what it means to be a

982
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: hero morally and physically. I want you to break that

983
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: down for us, like, how do you introduce this and

984
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: how did the stoics think about this? So if we

985
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: think of courage as the triumph over fear, maybe what

986
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: we're saying is that heroic is something beyond even that.

987
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: So in the book, I'm talking about Michael Jordan's decision

988
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: to leave basketball to play baseball. That's an immensely courageous

989
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: thing because it's risky. People critical of it is no idea.

990
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: If you can go from being the best in the

991
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 1: world at one sport to starting at the bottom of

992
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: another sport, Now, that was a courageous thing to do.

993
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: But I contrast that with Maya Moore's decision, equally dominant

994
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: in the w NBA to walk away from basketball to

995
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: free a man wrongly convicted in prison. Right, So she's

996
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 1: not just doing something courageous, she's doing something heroic because

997
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 1: the primary beneficiary of what's happened is not her right.

998
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: So heroism to me, or the heroic is when we

999
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: do something courageous that's well beyond our self interest or

1000
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: perhaps very much at odds with our self interest. Right,

1001
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: when we talk about the courage to start a business, uh,

1002
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: you know, what we're talking about is pushing past doubts

1003
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: or risk or whatever. But what about the courage to

1004
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: leave a successful business to start a nonprofit? Right, You're

1005
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: you're not putting yourself often physical danger, but you're putting

1006
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: your interests behind the interests of other people. And that's

1007
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 1: a very scary, difficult thing to do. And it's he wrote,

1008
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: because by by putting others above us, we're actually elevating

1009
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: all of us. And so I wanted to look at

1010
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: that because I'm really really really inspired by that, and that,

1011
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: ultimately is what I think we need more of in

1012
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: the world. Obviously we need courageous entrepreneurs, but we need

1013
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: people who are willing to do something beyond just trying

1014
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: to make something for themselves. Yeah, I deeply appreciate that definition.

1015
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing with us, because to me, that

1016
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: that journey from courage to being heroic, that that is

1017
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: that purpose, that service, that that extension of oneself for others,

1018
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: and ultimately I can agree with you more. I genuinely

1019
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: believe that purpose. You know, I was saying, I suppose

1020
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 1: I was speaking to a friend recently. I was saying,

1021
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: how you know a dream without service is in complete,

1022
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: Like the idea is, like, you know, you can only

1023
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: build a dream so far with the desire for it

1024
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: to all be about yourself, and then it doesn't even

1025
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: do it for you anymore. And I feel like, but

1026
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: you've paved a really good path because also you can't

1027
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: just jump to being heroic, because there are certain skills

1028
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: and muscles and things that you develop on the way

1029
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: by building courage first, Like, there are certain tools and

1030
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 1: tricks and tips and things that you pick up along

1031
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: the way that make it more powerful to be heroic. Aft. Well,

1032
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: one of the things I was inspired by, it's just

1033
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: something I ran in a small news story many years ago,

1034
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: was the decision I think maybe ten years ago, that

1035
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: CVS just decides are going to stop selling cigarettes. Now,

1036
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: this is bad for CVS, this is bad for the

1037
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 1: shareholders of CPS, but it's obviously good for the world. Right,

1038
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 1: And as they find overall cigarette consumption goes down across

1039
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: the entire country because people are just like it's harder

1040
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: to get cigarettes, they just smokes, right, and so like,

1041
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: obviously we love ambition, we love creativity, we love people

1042
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: who are trying to be successful. But there is something

1043
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: beyond that. I think we saw it during the pandemic,

1044
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: the people who showed up every day for work, even

1045
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: though it must have been scary and terrifying for them,

1046
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: but they knew that other people were depending on them,

1047
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: that where would we be without those kind of people?

1048
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: And so you know, obviously the pandemic revealed some selfishness

1049
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: and indifference and all sorts of awful parts of our

1050
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: modern society, but it also revealed I think some of

1051
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: the best of our society. And I wanted to celebrate

1052
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: this idea of of yes, pushing through fear is important,

1053
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: but why are you doing it right? Who are you

1054
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,399
Speaker 1: doing it for? That really really matters? Yeah, I think

1055
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: that's beautiful man, Ryan, This has been such a wonderful conversation.

1056
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: I highly recommend everyone if you haven't read Ryan's work.

1057
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean I would go and buy every single book.

1058
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding. They not only look beautiful, but

1059
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: they are beautiful and you know, obstacle is the way

1060
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: is just fantastic. Ego as the enemy. Stillness is the

1061
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: key we talked about last time, I mean, and this

1062
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: one courage is calling is what we've been talking about today. Ryan.

1063
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: We end every interview with the final five. You've done

1064
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: this before. These are the fast five. So every question

1065
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: needs to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

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00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: You are the writers, so you can help me define

1067
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: what one sentence counts as, Like, how many words are

1068
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: in a sense in a good sentence? Ryan? I? As

1069
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: many or as few as there should be? Okay? All right,

1070
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: great love. I love the vagueness of that. Okay, brilliant.

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00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 1: All right. So the first question for you is what

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00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: is something you once were attracted to that has become

1073
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: less important to you? I think money, certainly money. I

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00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: think money represented something to me early in my life.

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00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: And the more or you get of it, the more

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00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: you realize that it really doesn't mean anything and there's

1077
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: less to do with it than you think there is, right,

1078
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: and and did that come off to a stain amount

1079
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: of sainse success? Did that? Where did you feel like?

1080
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: What made you feel that it doesn't have to be

1081
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: a statistical number. I just mean, like, what was it

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00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: that made you feel that way. I don't know if

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00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: there was a specific number, but I remember I had

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00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: a conversation with Tim Ferris once and he was like,

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00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: what do you do with your money? You know? And

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00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: he's like, what do you mean? He's like, he's like,

1087
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: do you have a speedboat? You know? Do you invest it?

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00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: What do you And I was like, it just goes

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00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: in the bank, right, Like I don't know. And he's like,

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00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: so it's not important to you really, And I was like, yeah,

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00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: I guess not. You know. He was like his point

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00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: was if you're if you don't need the money, just

1093
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: make sure that you're not saying yes to things that

1094
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: you don't really want to do to get more money

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00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: if you don't really want the money. And that was

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00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: very helpful to me. Yeah, I love that. Okay. Question

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00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: number two, what is something you affect uninterested in that

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00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: has now become something intriguing or a curiosity? I mean,

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00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: I think I always knew I wanted to have kids,

1100
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: but I didn't understand just how much I would love

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00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: it and how how much it would transform my life.

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00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: And so I would say, you know, sort of family

1103
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: being the sort of big, big thing, especially again during

1104
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: the pandemic, just it was like, Oh, this is all

1105
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: I really care about, this is all I'm going to

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00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: focus on, So maybe family would be the big thing.

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00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: I love that, alright. Question number three, what's the most

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00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: used piece of Stoic wisdom that you utilize on a

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00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 1: daily or more regular basis? The first Stoic exercise is

1110
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: this idea that there's things that are up to us

1111
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: and things that are not up to us, and really

1112
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: all we should focus on is what's not is what

1113
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: is yes, And that's extremely hard to do, and I

1114
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: screwed up all the time, but I find myself constantly

1115
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: reminding myself it doesn't matter. No amount of thinking about

1116
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: this will change it. Just focus on what you can

1117
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: do in response to it, or you know, inside of it.

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01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: That's probably I love that. Ironically, the most basic thing

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01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: is the most complex thing. Absolutely well, I was going

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01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: to ask you that as the next question. What is

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01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: a piece of Stoic advice that you think you're still

1122
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: wrestling or grappling with that may be counterintuitive, it may

1123
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: even be off the wall, and you may be like, Okay,

1124
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that you leave out

1125
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: the book because it's just it just you know. And

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01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 1: there's plenty of stuff with that in the Vedic tradition too,

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01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: like there's some stuff that's the stuff the wall. Is

1128
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: there something like that from the that you've been reading

1129
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: recently that I mean, I think all of it to

1130
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: be perfectly honest, all of it is on a day

1131
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: to day basis. But there is a line in the

1132
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: beginning of Meditations Mark Surrealists lists all these things that

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01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: he learned from his mentors, and I think it's from

1134
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: Sextists or Severist someone early on in his life. She

1135
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: said that I learned how to be free of passion

1136
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: but full of love. And that doesn't that that doesn't

1137
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,479
Speaker 1: sound very stoic, right, Um, The idea of being full

1138
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: of love, the being free of passions sounds very stud

1139
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: but full of love sounds more Eastern and or Christian,

1140
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of both, and I find that to

1141
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: be very beautiful. And the idea of being like, Okay,

1142
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna strip out some of the emotion, I'm gonna

1143
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: strip out some of the need to control blah blah

1144
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but I'm gonna replace it with like love, empathy, kindness.

1145
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: That is harder for me to do, but but something

1146
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm working on. I love that. That's that's beautiful and

1147
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: sat okay. Fifth and final question, what are your top

1148
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: favorite I don't mind how many numbers, three, four, five

1149
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: books that you've read this year, so more recent or

1150
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: that you've read this year. It doesn't even see a

1151
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: recent book. Doctor Edith Inger wrote this book called The Choice.

1152
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: She's a Holocaust survivor. I loved that book. It blew

1153
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: me away. Then there's this other little book by Victor

1154
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: Frankel that they found recently called A Yes to Life.

1155
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, in spite of everything. That's like a collection

1156
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: of some of his lost lectures that I really really enjoyed.

1157
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: And then I read this book. It doesn't have a

1158
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: great title, but it's it's sort of changed how I've

1159
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: been thinking about things lately. It's called Indian Givers, and

1160
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:26,479
Speaker 1: it's about what Western society owes and has learned from

1161
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: indigenous peoples over the last like five six hundred years.

1162
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: And it was an incredible book that like, it just

1163
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: didn't I just had no ideas. Isn't unfortunately, what we

1164
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: teach in schools and I've just been thinking about that

1165
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: book so much. I really really liked it. I love

1166
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: that beautiful three that I haven't read. So Produces Amason

1167
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: order those books for me right now. I need those books.

1168
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: And for everyone's been listening and watching. As you know,

1169
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: I've been talking to Ryan Holiday. I want you to

1170
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: go and grab a copy of couragees Core, and like

1171
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: I said, every other book. You can find Ryan on

1172
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: the podcast. He's one of the few guests who've been

1173
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: on the podcast twice. This is a second episode, and

1174
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: of course Ryan, it's always a joy to have you on.

1175
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: I hope we get to do many many more of these.

1176
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: I hope you get to go on many many more walks.

1177
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: I really do hope we can spend a bit more

1178
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: time together. I've never been to Austin, can you believe it?

1179
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: So I also need to come out to Austin. But

1180
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: thank you for making the time. Thank you for being

1181
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: so generous. Everyone who's been listening on watching, make sure

1182
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: you tag me and Ryan on Instagram on Twitter. Let

1183
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: us know what resonated with you, what connected with you.

1184
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: If you've read one of the books that Ryan recommended,

1185
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: come back and tell him about it. Like we want

1186
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: to hear that, and I love staying connected to this community.

1187
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: So thank you to our on purpose community. Thank you

1188
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: to Ryan Holiday. Appreciate you man, Thank you so much.

1189
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: You're the best.