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Speaker 1: people would say, well, dropping on the college that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Taking the company private, that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Doing the largest tech acquisition ever

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Speaker 1: with fifty or sixty billion dollars a debt, you know,

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty big risk. But you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: they actually didn't seen that risk. Hey, everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 1: to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to each and every single one of you that

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Speaker 1: come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now,

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Speaker 1: today's guest is someone that I was really excited to

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Speaker 1: have today on the show because I think there's so

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Speaker 1: many moments in his life where he's gone through experiences

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Speaker 1: that we can all learn from. I'm talking about none

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Speaker 1: other than Michael Dell, the chairman and chief executive officer

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Speaker 1: of Dell Technologies and innovator and technology leader, providing the

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Speaker 1: essential infrastructure for organizations to build their digital future. Now.

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Speaker 1: He's the author of two books, including the next upcoming book.

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Speaker 1: The one that I really want you to read is

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Speaker 1: Play Nice but Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader.

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Speaker 1: I love the title. I've already loved chapters of the

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Speaker 1: book that I've read and I cannot wait for you

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Speaker 1: to read it. Michael is an honorary member of the

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Speaker 1: Foundation Board of the World Economic Forum and as an

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Speaker 1: Executive Committee member of the International Business Council. I welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, Michael Dell. Michael, thank you for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to do this. I cannot wait for people

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Speaker 1: to read your book, and I'm so lucky that I

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Speaker 1: get to sit down with you as the author of

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Speaker 1: the book before everyone gets too So thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for your energy. Yeah, thank you, Jay. Great to

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Speaker 1: be with you and great to be with your audience. Yeah. I,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I love the title. I want to

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Speaker 1: dive into the book a bit later, but I want

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Speaker 1: to start off with asking you a question that I've

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Speaker 1: been asking a lot of people recently, because I think

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Speaker 1: there's something beautiful about learning about this. So I'll share

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Speaker 1: with you a story. I was I work with a

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Speaker 1: lot of core but clients as a speaker or a coach,

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Speaker 1: and I was speaking on my clients recently, and of

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Speaker 1: course we're on zoom and he's got something in his

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Speaker 1: background and I'm wondering what it is. And he has

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Speaker 1: a paintbrush hanging on his background wall, and it's a

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Speaker 1: real paintbrush, and it's a big paint brush. You can't

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Speaker 1: miss it. And I said to him, I said, look,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be creepy, but I'm just being curious.

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Speaker 1: Why do you have a paintbrush on your wall? And

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Speaker 1: he said he started laughing. He said, no one's ever

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Speaker 1: asked me that before. And I was thinking, wow, like

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Speaker 1: people must really be scared of you. But he said that.

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Speaker 1: He said that the reason he has it is because

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Speaker 1: his first ever job was that he used to paint fences,

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Speaker 1: and then when he did that successfully, he painted walls.

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Speaker 1: And then when he did that successfully, he got to

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Speaker 1: paint homes. And he keeps that paintbrush up there to

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Speaker 1: remind him of where he started. Today, he's a very

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Speaker 1: successful executive. I wanted to ask you, what was your

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Speaker 1: first ever ever job that you did, and is there

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Speaker 1: a lesson that you learned there that you've carried with

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Speaker 1: you throughout your success? Yeah? You know, I first of all,

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Speaker 1: I'm big believer in those early jobs. You know, my

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Speaker 1: first job, I was twelve years old. I was a

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Speaker 1: dishwasher in a Chinese restaurant. I got promoted to a

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Speaker 1: water boy and then assistant mater d So I was

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Speaker 1: moving up pretty fast, and I got recruited away by

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Speaker 1: another restaurant, and I've been working every day since then

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Speaker 1: pretty much, and I have to say I've loved it.

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Speaker 1: That's incredible. Do you do you mind me asking how

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Speaker 1: much did you used to make at the time as

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Speaker 1: a twelve year old? I guess it was like this

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Speaker 1: would have been in nineteen seventy seven. So what was

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Speaker 1: the minimum wage back then? Like a dollar or two

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Speaker 1: dollars or you know, something like that. It wasn't very much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what would you save it up for? Like? What were

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Speaker 1: you doing with that money at that time? What was

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Speaker 1: it leading to it? Yeah? So at the time, I

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Speaker 1: was into stamps and I started, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: collecting stamps and then I started like buying and selling stamps.

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Speaker 1: I ran a stamp auction. I got into stocks and

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Speaker 1: you know, currencies when when I was like fourteen fifteen,

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Speaker 1: started investing my mom was a stockbroker, really got interested

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Speaker 1: in financial markets, you know, around fourteen fifteen. It was

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Speaker 1: sort of the dawn and the microprocessor age, and I

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Speaker 1: happened to, you know, get exposed to the origins of

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Speaker 1: what became the PC and that obviously impacted my life

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Speaker 1: in a big way. If you're a twelve year old today,

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Speaker 1: you'd be doing NFTs and crypto and that would be

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Speaker 1: a whoad I'm guessing seeing is probably yeah, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: now there's so many interesting things going on with you know, technology,

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Speaker 1: and you know the intersection of the biological sciences and

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Speaker 1: the computational sciences, and you know, it used to be

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Speaker 1: technology was about it departments and stuff like that. Now

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much affecting everything, and every business is getting

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Speaker 1: upended in some way by technology and AI and data

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Speaker 1: and networks. And it's super exciting to see the pace

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Speaker 1: that the economy is changing with technology at the fulcroom

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Speaker 1: of that. Absolutely, And I know that you dropped out

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Speaker 1: of college, and a lot of successful founders have dropped

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Speaker 1: out of college, and I'm not at all recommending that

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Speaker 1: or encouraging that, and either of you. I'm intrigued to

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Speaker 1: think about, though, if you've finished your degree, how differently

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Speaker 1: do you think your life would have gone. That's the

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Speaker 1: first part of the question, And the second part of

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Speaker 1: the question is what gave you the courage to actually

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Speaker 1: drop out and pursue something which at the time, as

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Speaker 1: you said, was very new and very cutting edge and innovative,

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Speaker 1: but people didn't really have a lot of certainty and

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Speaker 1: surety around it. Yeah, you know, it seemed like I

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Speaker 1: have an easy decision for me. I mean, let me

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Speaker 1: start with the first part. You know, what would have

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Speaker 1: happened if I'd graduated. I don't know. Oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that I would have gone down this path. I

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Speaker 1: might be like a you know, a doctor in Houston somewhere,

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Speaker 1: you know, which is what my parents wanted me to be.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when when I started, first of all,

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Speaker 1: if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's it's pretty easy decisions. You know, the University

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Speaker 1: of Texas here in Austin, you can take a semester

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Speaker 1: off and come back with no academic penalty. So that

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Speaker 1: was kind of the deal I made with my parents

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Speaker 1: that I would go do this for a while and

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Speaker 1: if it worked out, I would keep doing it, and

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Speaker 1: if it didn't, I go back to school. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it didn't seem like an enormous risk to me. My

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Speaker 1: parents were were pretty upset with me, for sure, because

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Speaker 1: you know, when the world they came from, giving up

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for an education was like the worst thing

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Speaker 1: you could possibly do, but you know, all it all

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Speaker 1: worked out. I love that. I want to hear more

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Speaker 1: about that interacts me with your parents, Michael, because I

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Speaker 1: feel there are so many children today and young people

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Speaker 1: and young adults. They go through the same experience as

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Speaker 1: you did. They either want to quit, or they want

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Speaker 1: to start something new, or they're on the verge of

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Speaker 1: an idea they have but they don't have the confidence

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Speaker 1: their parents might not be into it. What does someone

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Speaker 1: look to at that time, at that early stage in

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Speaker 1: their career where they don't have the wins on their

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Speaker 1: list yet, they don't have the successes, but they want

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Speaker 1: to follow their dreams, follow their passion, follow their heart.

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Speaker 1: What advice do you have for someone who's in that

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Speaker 1: position right now? Well, it's it's difficult and extremely emotional,

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Speaker 1: and I talk about this in the book and the

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Speaker 1: kind of struggle that I had with that and with

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Speaker 1: my parents. You know, ultimately I just decided that I

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Speaker 1: was going to do this whether or not I had

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Speaker 1: their approval, you know, which which was which was a

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Speaker 1: really tough thing to do, and my mother was was

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Speaker 1: unbelievably upset with me, and I would say it took

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Speaker 1: about a year or two, maybe three to sort of

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Speaker 1: fully get through that. I don't know that there is

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Speaker 1: universal advice here other than if you are in a

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Speaker 1: situation where you can take the risk and you don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot to lose and you can fall back

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Speaker 1: on something else. You know. Look, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't achieve even a small fraction of what

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Speaker 1: they're capable of because they're afraid to fail and they're

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Speaker 1: not willing to take on more risk. And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of potential that's left on the field that never

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Speaker 1: gets utilized because people want the perfect plan, or they

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Speaker 1: want to do what they're supposed to do, or they're

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Speaker 1: just not willing to take on that risk. And we

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Speaker 1: need people to take on risk, not just for new companies,

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Speaker 1: but you know, for existing companies and to redo and

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Speaker 1: rethink and reimagine our world. You know, we can't just

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Speaker 1: like do a little bit better version of what we

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Speaker 1: had before. We have to constantly be reimagining things. You

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Speaker 1: spoke a lot about risk, then, Michael, I'm wondering, what

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Speaker 1: do you think is the biggest risk you ever took.

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Speaker 1: You said that decision was fairly easy. What do you

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Speaker 1: think What was the time when you feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I took a big risk, and whether it paid off

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Speaker 1: or not, I'd love to hear about how it panned out.

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Speaker 1: But what was the biggest risk you ever took? If

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Speaker 1: you looked at it from the outside in, you know,

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Speaker 1: people would say, well, dropping on a college that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Taking the company private that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. You know, doing the largest tech

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Speaker 1: acquisition ever with fifty or sixty billion dollars a debt,

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty big risk. But you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: they actually didn't seen that risk right because I, you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of on a risk adjusted basis, I could see

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Speaker 1: my way through to the opportunity and could it have

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Speaker 1: all gone wrong, sure, but I didn't think it was

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Speaker 1: going to It's also a situa where, you know, if

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Speaker 1: I had sat there and said, Gee, should I drop

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Speaker 1: out of school? Should I not drop out of school?

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Speaker 1: Let's go talk to ten or one hundred people and

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Speaker 1: ask them what they think. Probably most of them would

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Speaker 1: have told me you're crazy for dropping out of school. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask anybody, you know, that wasn't how I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about it. Yeah, what would you say would

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Speaker 1: be your biggest failure to a day that you feel

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Speaker 1: like you were down and out where it was a

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Speaker 1: really tough situation. Was there a moment where things really

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Speaker 1: felt like they weren't working out? When would when would

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Speaker 1: that have been? Well, look, there've been plenty of times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think what people maybe fail to

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Speaker 1: understand is that embedded in success are failures, right, And

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Speaker 1: at the root of success you have kind of curiosity, learning, experimenting,

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Speaker 1: and failure, and without those things, you don't have any success, right,

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Speaker 1: And so failures are not necessarily bad, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're learning from them. And so, yeah, we had

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Speaker 1: all kinds of failures along the way to uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: cumulative revenues of about one point four trillion dollars, right,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you know, early on, we had

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Speaker 1: some super ambitious technical projects that failed, and we learned

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Speaker 1: from that. We built a lot of capability that allowed

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Speaker 1: us to create all kinds of new new products. As

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Speaker 1: a result, we had inventory planning challenges early on that

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Speaker 1: led us to be really world class that supply chain

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Speaker 1: management because we had to right and you know, necessities

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Speaker 1: the mother invention and the key is to learn from

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Speaker 1: the failures and correct them quickly and hopefully not make

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Speaker 1: the same mistakes over and over again. And if you

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Speaker 1: can learn from other people's mistakes, you know, learn from

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Speaker 1: from your new mistakes that you're making and correct them quickly,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be very successful. You've got to be

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Speaker 1: willing to experiment and fail. The other thing is, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're when you're going into new areas, there's no playbook, right,

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Speaker 1: there's you can't like read a book or talk to

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Speaker 1: an expert like tell you how to do this. You

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Speaker 1: just have to start. I love that, Thank you, Michael no.

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Speaker 1: I love hearing that. It's always it's always wonderful to

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Speaker 1: hear of someone who seems to be having fun and

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Speaker 1: growing continuously and enjoying life on the journey as well.

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Speaker 1: And I want to come to your book now. You know,

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Speaker 1: play nice, but when a CEO's journey from founder to leader.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the tie tool for a bit.

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Speaker 1: When you hear the words play nice, but when were

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Speaker 1: these words that you said a lot? Were these words

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Speaker 1: that you heard a lot? How did these words take

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Speaker 1: shape in your life? Yeah? So, my two brothers and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we were little kids, and we would

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Speaker 1: go out in the street and play ball with our friends.

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Speaker 1: That's what our parents told us. You know, almost every

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Speaker 1: time they say it, played high school win. And so

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Speaker 1: it kind of became this philosophy of you know, let's

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Speaker 1: not forget about the winning part, right, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna play nice, we're gonna play fair, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: do it, you know, kind of ethically responsibly. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: well's we're aded to win, right. And so I kind

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Speaker 1: of been something that's just stuck with me ever since

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Speaker 1: I was a little kid, and it goes back to

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Speaker 1: my childhood, and I talk about that in the book

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Speaker 1: as well. Did you ever meet anyone along the way

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Speaker 1: that tried to challenge that and tell you it wasn't possible.

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Speaker 1: I tell you, you you had to play ruthless, you had

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Speaker 1: to play bad and win like Was there anyone who

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Speaker 1: challenged that? And not specifically, I don't need you to

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Speaker 1: tell me exactly who I'm just saying, was there anyone

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Speaker 1: who really debated and challenged that hypothesis and said, my

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Speaker 1: cod this is not gonna work. You're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: play unfair? And was there anyone in your life that

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Speaker 1: you met that completely disagreed with that statement. Well, look,

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Speaker 1: I you know, I've been running our company for thirty

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Speaker 1: seven years. I mean, I believe markets are are long

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Speaker 1: term efficient, right, And you know, I think everything sort

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Speaker 1: of comes back to you in a good way, you know,

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Speaker 1: or a bad way if you're playing the other side.

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Speaker 1: And I've just kind of avoided the opposite path and

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Speaker 1: it's worked for me. And you know, it just feels

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Speaker 1: right to me. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to feel right about what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when I'm ninety or one hundred or

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Speaker 1: hopefully older, I want to be proud of everything I

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Speaker 1: did and the way I did it. And that's just

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Speaker 1: really important to me. So and look, I've I've run

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Speaker 1: into plenty of people that didn't play nice, and I

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Speaker 1: just tried to, you know, certainly not have a in

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Speaker 1: our company, you know, avoid doing business with them to

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Speaker 1: the extent I could. And that's what's worked for me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Was there ever a time, though, that you felt pressured

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Speaker 1: that you might have to change your approach to win

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Speaker 1: or was it always easy to stay to that? I

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Speaker 1: just I feel like I love it. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I completely agree with you, Like I think my favorite

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Speaker 1: way to win is to play nice, and the best

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Speaker 1: way to play nice is to make sure you win.

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Speaker 1: So I love that approach to life. I'm just wondering

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Speaker 1: whether there were any times where you actually maybe just

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Speaker 1: had a thought and you thought, well, maybe if I

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Speaker 1: didn't play so nice, maybe i'd win more, Maybe i'd

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Speaker 1: maybe I would be more successful if I did this

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Speaker 1: or did this thing. Did you ever have that debate?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever have that thought internally or were you

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Speaker 1: always convinced that this was not for a second. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't feel right to win if I had cheated

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Speaker 1: it or done in an unscrupulous way, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I talk about in the book some of the early

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Speaker 1: former of experiences where we had people that did things

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Speaker 1: that weren't exactly correct right in one way or another,

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Speaker 1: and it really surprised me. Maybe I was naive, or

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Speaker 1: I think people love the clarity of knowing what we

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Speaker 1: stand for right and knowing that we don't change the

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Speaker 1: rules depending on who it is or how important it

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Speaker 1: is or anything like that. It's like, hey, we're very

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Speaker 1: clear about the ethical standards that we uphold as a company,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a lot easier that way. I love

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Speaker 1: hearing that, trust me, I'm so happy to hear that

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Speaker 1: because I think value based business is so needed in

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Speaker 1: the world right now, and when we look at things

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Speaker 1: like conscious capitalism and the idea of creating wealth, creating

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Speaker 1: impact through values and through purpose and through mission. It's

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Speaker 1: beautiful to hear that you never even got you know,

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Speaker 1: you never even had a moment of doubt. I love

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Speaker 1: hearing that because I think it shows what's possible. I

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Speaker 1: wonder there's a lot of our listeners who may be

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Speaker 1: trying to decide between entrepreneurial employee and you know, today,

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Speaker 1: because the entrepreneurial life mindset has become so mainstream culture

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Speaker 1: and accessible, a lot more people are thinking in that direction.

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Speaker 1: I wonder, what can you do to teach us about

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Speaker 1: the difference between the entrepreneur mindset and the employee mindset?

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Speaker 1: And what difference is people can see so that they

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Speaker 1: can see where they're best placed. When things get pretty heated,

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Speaker 1: you I think you see more opportuners, you know, and

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the pure entrepreneurs. And you know, that's okay.

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Speaker 1: Everybody could choose their own path, you know, in my experience.

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Speaker 1: It's not for the faint of heart right to go

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Speaker 1: start a business. I mean, it is all in And

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Speaker 1: you know when I started, fortunately I was nineteen years

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Speaker 1: old and I could work eighteen hours a day and

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Speaker 1: sleep with the office and had no responsibilities, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh in terms of family or any anything like that.

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Speaker 1: And I had the kind of physical statement to work

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Speaker 1: like a maniac for several years, which that's sort of

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Speaker 1: what it took at the beginning. Fortunately that didn't have

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Speaker 1: to perpetuate. But yeah, I mean it's not all glamorous

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Speaker 1: and success and and there are plenty of businesses that

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Speaker 1: don't work out. And yeah, I mean it's easy to

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Speaker 1: look at the successful businesses and say, wow, it was

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Speaker 1: just straight up, you know, and to the right forever.

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Speaker 1: It's like, not exactly, it's not exactly the way it

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Speaker 1: goes really in any business. But yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's a very personal decision in terms of what someone's

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Speaker 1: risk appetite is, and you know, are they willing to

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Speaker 1: take all that on? And you know, when you put

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Speaker 1: your head down at night, you're thinking about all those

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Speaker 1: people that you're responsible for. I loved having chapter three.

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Speaker 1: You said, you know you don't start a company if

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Speaker 1: you're not an optimist. You know that there has to

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Speaker 1: be that optimism. And part of your optimism was the

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Speaker 1: openness to compete with IBM and to you know, to

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Speaker 1: challenge a long established company even when you were young.

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Speaker 1: Where did that confidence come from? Where did that ambition,

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Speaker 1: that desire come from? That gave you so much confidence

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Speaker 1: and strength and that sort of a mindset. I guess

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Speaker 1: if I was being objective looking at it now, I'd

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Speaker 1: say there was some naivete there for sure as well,

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Speaker 1: But all that mixture was pretty powerful. And you know

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Speaker 1: what I saw when I looked at the IBMPC back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one when it first came out. It

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Speaker 1: just had the fortieth anniversary a month or two ago

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Speaker 1: of the IBM PC was it was this thing they

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Speaker 1: sold for like three thousand dollars, but it had five

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth of parts in it, and none of

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Speaker 1: the parts were made by IBM. So to my teenage mind,

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Speaker 1: it kind of seemed like a criminal enterprise. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's like, why does it cost so much and why

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Speaker 1: does it take so long? And why can't it be faster?

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Speaker 1: And you know, had a ton of ideas, and it's

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Speaker 1: hard for people to really understand right now, but back

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties, IBM was not just the

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Speaker 1: most successful, you know, computer company. They were like unbelievably

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Speaker 1: dominant in this field, unlike any other company except maybe

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Speaker 1: like Standard oil. You know, back in the day, they

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Speaker 1: just dwarfed any other company in the IT slash data

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Speaker 1: processing field. Obviously very different thirty forty years later, but

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Speaker 1: at the time they were the giant. And they were

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Speaker 1: also like the most valuable company in America, right, so

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Speaker 1: it was a big business. But hey, they seem vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to me. I up that example of what you said,

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Speaker 1: like looking at it and seeing a criminal enterprise because

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Speaker 1: of the you know, because of the shocking difference between

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Speaker 1: the parts and the pieces. And you're right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a world where IBM was still

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Speaker 1: very powerful. But I know what you mean. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about the scale of it at the time, and you

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Speaker 1: talk about in chapter seven the fight for Dell to

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Speaker 1: go private, and it's been like a long disruptive process

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Speaker 1: for everyone that's involved. And you mentioned in the book

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Speaker 1: that in del you had this saying of failure is

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Speaker 1: not an option. I want to know what kept you

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Speaker 1: going in that fight to make it private, Like, what

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Speaker 1: was the thing that kept you consistently fighting? Because sometimes

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Speaker 1: we're fighting for fighting sake, But in this situation, that

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. You were fighting for something more important and

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Speaker 1: more deep. Where did that come from? Yeah? You know,

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Speaker 1: I really felt that going private would allow us to

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Speaker 1: accelerate our transformation, and it would allow us to kind

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Speaker 1: of ignite the entrepreneurial risk taking, a spirit that was

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Speaker 1: the origin of the company. And you know, I think

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Speaker 1: Winston Churchill said something to the effect that, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're going through hell, you know, keep going, all right.

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Speaker 1: So we were in the middle of it. It's not

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Speaker 1: easy to like stop and say we're just kid never

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Speaker 1: mind forget it. You know, I guess we could have

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Speaker 1: done that, But once you get started, it was a

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Speaker 1: fight worth winning. I thought we could win, you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was truly believed that it was a

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Speaker 1: very important thing for the company to do at that

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Speaker 1: time to inflect the transformation. And we can look back

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Speaker 1: seven years later and say, yeah, good, good thing we

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Speaker 1: did that. Everyone else can make the connections in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: but you were able to make the connections in the process,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's always what's hot of but another

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Speaker 1: area of your life apart from your professional success of course,

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Speaker 1: but you one of the few people who have this

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Speaker 1: red personal success too, with your wife, your four children,

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to understand you probably get asked the

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Speaker 1: work life balance question a million times. I personally don't

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Speaker 1: believe in balance. I think it's a myth. I'm not

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Speaker 1: convinced that it's real, and I think that it's actually

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Speaker 1: causes more pressure than creates fuel in our lives when

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Speaker 1: we're constantly trying to balance. I wanted to understand what

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Speaker 1: was your journey in creating a successful professional life, an

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Speaker 1: extremely successful professional life, but also managing to have a real,

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Speaker 1: genuine personal life as well. Yeah, so, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I think when you're starting a business, you know, this

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Speaker 1: idea of balance, you know, just forget about it. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like you're you're not going to have it. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, I'm gonna start a company and I'm a

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Speaker 1: great work life balance and it's not gonna happen. Right

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Speaker 1: If it is, it's a foreign thing to me. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how how you could do that. But you know,

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Speaker 1: once you have a business kind of up and running

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Speaker 1: and you're into year, ten, year, fifteen, year, twenty, right,

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Speaker 1: you've got systems and processes and people, and well, what

430
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: you find is there's a diminishing return to the number

431
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: of hours worked. And also you know your happiness is

432
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: impacted and you don't have to do everything yourself, and

433
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: you sort of always kind of are reassessing what is

434
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: the point of impact where I can make a meaningful

435
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: impact on the company and you know, cause something great

436
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: to happen, And I'm not going to do that in

437
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 1: my ninetieth hour or one hundredth hour of work in

438
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: a week, right, you know there's a sweet spot there.

439
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I also consciously wanted to have a

440
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: family and children and a family life and that kind

441
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: of grounding that I had as a child, and that

442
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: was something I really desired. So I sought it out

443
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: and planned planned my life in that way because I

444
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: also knew that, you know, if I kept working for

445
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: another ten plus years and didn't have that, I would

446
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: be unhappy. Yeah, And but I'm sure that there were

447
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: those tough decisions to make like, I'm sure there were

448
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: moments where maybe your wife and your children wanted your time,

449
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: but you had to be at an important meeting, or

450
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: you had to be on a plane, or how did

451
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: you deal with those challenges because they're very natural. It

452
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, it doesn't make you a bad person,

453
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: but it's like you, I'm sure there were moments where

454
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: you felt guilty or you couldn't be somewhere with your

455
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: family that you really wanted to be with. How did

456
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: you deal with that and get through that successfully when

457
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: so many other people struggle with those moments. First of all,

458
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, you have to have some boundaries and set

459
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: some boundaries, and I'll say I was pretty good about

460
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: having boundaries. Didn't really do a lot of work on

461
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: the weekend, so that was pretty sacred time. When when

462
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: in the Jenny did that happen or was that from

463
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: the beginning you never worked weekends. I'd say, you know,

464
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: when we started having, you know, little kids, I also,

465
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: you know, kind of set up our house where we

466
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: had a place where people could come over for dinner,

467
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: and so I would often have a lot of dinner

468
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: still do at the house, and that way to just

469
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: save time sometimes my kids would you know, it's kind

470
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: of a funny story. My son he figured out when

471
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: he was about five or six that, you know, if

472
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: he came to one of the dinners towards the end,

473
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: he could get a dessert. Right. But but then after

474
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: a while he's like, hey, that's Bill Gates. You know.

475
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: It's like, look, let's look, maybe I'll warned something, you know,

476
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: so he would like come and sit out and participate

477
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: in the dinners. It helped a lot to do that

478
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: at home. And yeah, you gotta have some boundaries. You

479
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: can't make it perfect all the time, you know. And

480
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: they're going to be times when we haven't been doing

481
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: this lately obviously, but you know, when I would go

482
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: to Europe or Asia on business trips, you're just going

483
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: all out, like for for a long time, from early

484
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: morning to late at night. And that's okay. You know,

485
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: you can sprint for a while and do that. But also, yeah,

486
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: I made time to relax and play and exercise and

487
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: think and not be overly scheduled too. I think I

488
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: think the dinners is a genius one. I love that

489
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: that opening up your home and having those work dinners

490
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: or people over for dinners, so that you're actually at home,

491
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: you're with your family. It's it's still a part of

492
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: family time. I think that's that's genius, and it makes

493
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: so much sense as to why that's beneficial for the family,

494
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: for work, for so many other things. So I love

495
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: you sharing that tip. You can make story time with

496
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: the kids and still have a still have a dinner

497
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: with your business colleagues. You know. Yeah, it's brilliant. That's

498
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: a brilliant one. You mentioned in the book that you

499
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,239
Speaker 1: always kept mementos in your office, like some personal some

500
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: about the highs and low points of the company. Can

501
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: you tell us about some of these mementos because I'm

502
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 1: a I mean, you collected stamps, obviously, so collecting as

503
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: part of your your DNA. I love collecting mementos as well.

504
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: I want some inspiration. What were some of the things

505
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: that you held onto Yeah, you know, I kept things

506
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: that were meaningful. In the book, I have a picture

507
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: of the motherboard that Jay Bell, our first engineer, hand

508
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: wired up. You know, that's obviously a pretty treasured memento

509
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: for me about the origins of our company and tons

510
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: of stories there. I love how one of the values

511
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: of your company was to be known as a great

512
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: company and a great place to work at, you know,

513
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: the first few years of my entrepreneurial journey and trying

514
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: to build a team. We have a team of you know,

515
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: just shy of fifty people across the world that are

516
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: working on my certification school, my course is, my podcast, videos,

517
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: my books, just the whole area of my work. And

518
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: I love that you said you wanted your company one

519
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: of the values was to be known as a great

520
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: company and a great place to work at. I wanted

521
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: to know what were three key ingredients in ensuring you

522
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 1: were doing that as a leader. First of all, you

523
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: want to have an inspiring mission, and you want to

524
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 1: have people excited, not just engaged, but you want them

525
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: to believe that what they do is really important and

526
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: makes a difference in the world. And you're basically engendering passion,

527
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: which is way more powerful than just about anything else

528
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: you can present as a motivational tool. I'd say the

529
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: second thing is you want people to feel like they

530
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: can succeed and grow and fulfill their full potential inside

531
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: the organization, and there's nothing holding them back. There's no

532
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: limits for them, and you're caring about their success I

533
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: think a part of that is probably the third point

534
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: is that you've created an environment that is inclusive and

535
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: anybody can succeed. You're not looking for people that are

536
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: all the same. You want, you know, to hear a

537
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: diverse set of voices, and you know you're you're stronger

538
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: because of the you know, diverse set of voices and

539
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: ideas coming together. And we're all focused on ultimately something

540
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: that's bigger than ourselves. And you know, again, we've got

541
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: a really important reason to get up out of bettery morning.

542
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: You know what we do matters in the world. Yeah. Absolutely,

543
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's going

544
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: to be really really useful to me as we continue

545
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: to grow. So, Michael, I want to thank you for

546
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: just being so generous with your time and giving us

547
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: sense great insights. And I'm so excited for my audience

548
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: to read play nice but win, and I want to

549
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: end as we always do, on on purpose, without final fire.

550
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: If these are a fast five questions, you have to

551
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: answer them in one word to one sentence maximum. That's it. So,

552
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Michael Dasy a fast five. The first question is what

553
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: is the best piece of advice you've ever received? If

554
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: you find a problem, fix it as fast as you

555
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: find it. I love that. Okay. Second question, what is

556
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: the worst advice you've ever received? Nobody ever says, boy,

557
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm glad you waited to make that tough decision, all right,

558
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: So it's important to lean into difficult conversations a difficult decisions,

559
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: and you know, anybody tells you otherwise is just creating

560
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: more problems. Got it? Yeah? Absolutely? Question number three, what's

561
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: the first thing you do in the morning when you

562
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: wake up and the last thing you do at night

563
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: before you go to bed. I spend some time every

564
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: morning thinking about what do I want to accomplish during

565
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: the day, what's really important for me to get done

566
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: today and be proud of it at the end of

567
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: the day. And then as I'm going to sleep, I'm

568
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: really trying to wind down and relax and you know,

569
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: calm myself and sleep is super important. I try to

570
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: go to sleep early, get up early, want to get

571
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: a great night's sleep, want to get a high score

572
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: in my order ring and my sleep eight pod, and

573
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: just try to relax, calm myself, think grateful thoughts, and

574
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: not be too wound up about all the stuff I

575
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: have to do tomorrow. Awesome. Question number four, what is

576
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,719
Speaker 1: your current purpose today? Our purpose as a company is

577
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: still enabling human potential with technology, and you know, I

578
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: think that's a super powerful mission that will continue for

579
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: a long long time. That's enduring and we're continue to

580
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: be excited by it. Fantastic And fifth and final question, Michael,

581
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: if you could create one law that everyone in the

582
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: world had to follow, what would it be. Be grateful

583
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: for what you have and take responsibility for your own life,

584
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: self determination. Don't blame it on other people. It's all

585
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: on you. You've got to go make it happen, and

586
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: it's nobody else's fault. I love it, Michael Dell everyone,

587
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: and the new book is out. It's called Play Nice

588
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: but Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader. Michael,

589
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: I want to thank you again for your energy. I

590
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: hope that everyone's been listening on watching that you're going

591
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: to share your greatest insights on Instagram, on Twitter, makes

592
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: you tag me and Michael and let us know what

593
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: resonated with you. And again, go and grab a cropy

594
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: of the book. Michael, thank you for this time. I

595
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: look forward to meeting you in person one day soon.

596
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: All the best with everything you're working on, and I'm

597
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: so happy that we got to spend this time together.

598
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jay, great to be with you.

599
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: If you want even more videos just like this one

600
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: makes you you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.

601
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm also excited to let you know that you can

602
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: now get my book Think Like a Monk from Think

603
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: Like a Book dot com. Check below in the description

604
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: to make sure you order today.