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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so lonely. I just.

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Speaker 2: Nobody to talk too. Unfortunately. I want to be wanted,

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Speaker 2: I want to be loved, I want to be appreciated.

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Speaker 2: I want to have nobody to talk to.

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Speaker 3: Yay, I don't know nobody to come for me. Gay.

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Speaker 2: Why are men so lonely?

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Speaker 1: You don't need to have one hundred people at your

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Speaker 1: birthday party. You need three people that you can go

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Speaker 1: to when you're in your hardest moments.

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Speaker 2: Fifteen percent of US men reported having no close friends.

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Speaker 1: One of my friends said that one of her biggest

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Speaker 1: eggs is seeing a man cry.

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Speaker 2: Being vulnerable has been a long term difficulty.

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Speaker 1: These days, women seem to want a man who is

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Speaker 1: emotionally available, but not emotional.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I just don't feel seen.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you do have to go outside of what you've

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Speaker 1: been used to. If you are trying something new with yourself.

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Speaker 2: As a man, If you're listening to this right now

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Speaker 2: and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of On

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Speaker 1: Purpose with Jay Chetti and Radiy Dvlkia. We have created

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Speaker 1: these moments of conversation so that we can share a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things that we discuss in our car

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Speaker 1: journeys when we're traveling places when we have space and

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Speaker 1: time to actually think about what's happening in the world,

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Speaker 1: the conversations we're having with friends, and sharing all the

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Speaker 1: things that people are finding a little bit difficult, and

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Speaker 1: just you know, having open ended, curious conversations based on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we wanted to find a space where we could

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Speaker 2: share conversations we're having and whether you're watching this on

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Speaker 2: your own, or whether you're watching this with your partner,

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Speaker 2: or whether you're watching this with a friend, we just

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Speaker 2: wanted to engage in conversations that we think people are having.

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Speaker 2: They may not know who to go to and where

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Speaker 2: to turn to, and so we hope that this provides

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Speaker 2: a space and an open forum to have those in.

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Speaker 2: Today's topic is why are men so lonely? And this

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Speaker 2: is based on something that researchers are calling a friendship

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Speaker 2: recession among men. So, just to set it up, fifteen

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Speaker 2: percent of US men reported having no close friends fifteen

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Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty one, which is up from three

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Speaker 2: percent in nineteen ninety. Only thirteen percent of men have

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Speaker 2: ten plus close friends, which is down from thirty three

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Speaker 2: percent in nineteen ninety and one in four US men

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Speaker 2: under thirty five report feeling lonely. One in four men

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Speaker 2: under thirty five report feeling lonely, with US men ranking

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Speaker 2: lonelier than peers in the most developed countries, and loneliness

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Speaker 2: was declared a national epidemic by US Surgeon General Vivicmorti

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: That is honestly really sad though. But who also knew

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Speaker 1: that Akon was so right with the songs he was

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Speaker 1: singing in the day. What here's a song lonely?

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Speaker 2: I don't think people going to even remember that you're.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: But you know justin bieber As a song called lonely

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Speaker 2: does he Yeah, that's one of my favorite No so good.

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Speaker 1: But all that to say that men aren't really speaking

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Speaker 1: about it, but we're just not listening, That's what That's

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Speaker 1: what That's really what it is. People are somehow talking

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Speaker 1: about it, but we're not listening. It's so interesting because

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Speaker 1: with men, I noticed that men often travel in groups.

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Speaker 1: Like recently, I've been laughing with my cousins because we

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Speaker 1: go to the gym and there's these packs of men

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Speaker 1: that come in. You know, girls will be alone, they'll

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Speaker 1: be doing their own thing, but there are two, three,

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Speaker 1: sometimes a pack of six men who are hyping each

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Speaker 1: other up in the gym working out. Like I noticed

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Speaker 1: that a lot, and but I noticed it so much

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Speaker 1: more in sports. And so when I was thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: I realized that so many men connect through activities. Women

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Speaker 1: connect through We'll go get our nails done together. That's

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Speaker 1: a space talk. You can't do much else but talk.

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Speaker 1: You go get a coffee. What do you do You

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Speaker 1: talk and have a coffee. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of the way that women spend time together creates space

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Speaker 1: for emotional conversations, creates space and time to have that,

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Speaker 1: whereas a lot of the time when men meet, they

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Speaker 1: go to the pub to watch a game, they'll they'll

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Speaker 1: play in activity. It doesn't leave room or space to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation except for before like oh did you

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Speaker 1: watch that game? And then after it's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch the other game. And so I think,

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Speaker 1: is that what men's sound like? Yeah, that's what they

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Speaker 1: sound I'm just gonna have a point. But I think

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Speaker 1: that the way that they spend time together kind of

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Speaker 1: reflects what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that. Yeah, I never thought about it like that.

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Speaker 1: You can get your nails done more together.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're right that I have to make a concerted

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Speaker 2: effort to find time to talk to my friends before

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Speaker 2: or after we play pickleball or paddle or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: So you're spot on the way I like to spend

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Speaker 2: time with my friends is we play sports together where

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Speaker 2: outdoors to other we're watching a game together. So I

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Speaker 2: have to make an added effort as a man who

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Speaker 2: does not feel lonely, I have to make an added

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Speaker 2: effort to spend time with my friends. Now I get

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Speaker 2: this question a lot because we also both moved and

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Speaker 2: so I live in LA. Now we live in LA

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Speaker 2: and we were born and raised in London. So all

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Speaker 2: my best friends are my friends that know me the

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Speaker 2: best know me. Three sixty all live in London, and

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Speaker 2: one of them just moved to Dubai. And so when

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Speaker 2: I tell people that I speak to my best mate

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Speaker 2: who was my best man at my wedding, three times

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Speaker 2: a week, most people are absolutely shocked. Yeah, they're like,

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Speaker 2: how Now I have to give credit because he also

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Speaker 2: picks up. He also makes time. He also makes a

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Speaker 2: massive effort. But the reality is that at one point

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Speaker 2: I realized that if we were not talking to to

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Speaker 2: three times a week, I would feel lonely. Because he

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Speaker 2: is my closest friend, he does know me the best,

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Speaker 2: he has known me for the last twenty years. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so for me, that setup has what's allowed me

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Speaker 2: to not feel lonely because my life is busy. Also,

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Speaker 2: I think when you get married, naturally on the weeknights,

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Speaker 2: I want to spend time with you. Yeah, but we're

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Speaker 2: investing in our relationship, and my friends are in relationships

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Speaker 2: are also investing in their relationship. So if I'm now

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Speaker 2: only seeing mates once a week, maybe once every two weeks,

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Speaker 2: maybe once every month, how are we going to keep

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Speaker 2: that relationship up? How am I not going to feel

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Speaker 2: lonely because I don't have the time to be vulnerable.

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Speaker 2: If I'm only seeing you once a month, I may

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Speaker 2: not be confident or comfortable enough to open my heart

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Speaker 2: be vulnerable. And I think for men in general, being

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Speaker 2: vulnerable has been a long term difficulty.

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Speaker 1: I think about a lot of the men that I've

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Speaker 1: seen and who've had that kind of surface level connection,

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Speaker 1: not surface level, but not a place of conversation with

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Speaker 1: their friends where they can really speak about their heart.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling really like down today, like you would

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Speaker 1: not not normally hear a man say that to their friend.

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Speaker 1: How can someone who's used to doing these activities with

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Speaker 1: their friends, who's used to connecting to them based on

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Speaker 1: having a drink or going out and playing sport, how

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Speaker 1: do you make that transition? Because I saw this trend

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Speaker 1: on TikTok and it was these guys calling, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: the good night trend, but then it also turned into

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Speaker 1: the one way you call in sake, I'm just calling

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Speaker 1: to say good night to you. And then also there

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Speaker 1: was a trend saying, oh do you think I should

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Speaker 1: get therapy? A guy calling and asking their friends you

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Speaker 1: think I should get therapy? And it was really interesting

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Speaker 1: because you could tell the guys who don't have that

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Speaker 1: connection with their friends and be like, oh, why are

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Speaker 1: you being such a loser? Why do you go get

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Speaker 1: wow like or say do or saying you know, making

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Speaker 1: fun of it versus even believing that it could be true.

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Speaker 1: And so how would a guy who's so used to

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Speaker 1: having twenty years of this friendship where it's based on

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Speaker 1: jokes and laughter and not really talking about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Make that switch, because that can be quite uncomfortable for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, I imagine.

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Speaker 2: I mean that you've raised such a good point and

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Speaker 2: I never saw that trend. But that's actually really sad

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Speaker 2: for me that even in this day and age, when

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Speaker 2: a man has plucked up the courage to say something

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Speaker 2: like that, that it's met with that kind of reaction.

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Speaker 2: Because you'd hope that there are athletes today who've talked

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Speaker 2: about their mental health.

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Speaker 1: Understand that's okay to that be okay.

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Speaker 2: It's time to talk, it's time to change.

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Speaker 3: You know, you got so much responsibility as athlete to

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Speaker 3: your team. You know, youve got to play at a

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Speaker 3: certain level, your teammates counting on. You, got the pressure

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Speaker 3: for the media. But it's going through something when everybody

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Speaker 3: you know, things that you can't see, you can't touch.

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Speaker 2: It is time for sport to accept its responsibility with

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Speaker 2: this issue. There are athletes and sports and actors and

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Speaker 2: musicians male who've spoken about the challenges with their mental

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Speaker 2: health on all their platforms. I feel like we're living

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Speaker 2: at a time with some of the toughest, strongest men

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Speaker 2: on the planet talk about these things, and so I

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Speaker 2: think we've got to shift the narrative that when you

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Speaker 2: say something vulnerable that you're weak, or that in some

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Speaker 2: way you're a loser, or in some way that you're

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Speaker 2: not strong. But I think as we have these athletes

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Speaker 2: and superstars talking about their pain, I think there's also

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Speaker 2: been a trend online which is of the alpha male,

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Speaker 2: which is this idea of if you're a high value man,

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Speaker 2: you don't talk about your feelings. You just have discipline

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Speaker 2: and you break through it. And I always find this

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Speaker 2: really really interesting because I consider myself to be quite alpha,

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Speaker 2: and I consider myself to be quite emotionally engaged, and

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Speaker 2: so I've always tried to do both, and I don't

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Speaker 2: see them as a paradox. I see both as strength.

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Speaker 2: So I'm disciplined, I enjoy working out, I enjoy competition,

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Speaker 2: I love all those things. Yeah you're nodding because you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm extremely competitive. And at the same time, I think

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Speaker 2: talking about my feelings is really important, emotional vulnerability is

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Speaker 2: really important, and and being able to make space for

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Speaker 2: my friends and share is really important. So I think

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Speaker 2: a part of it is, first of all, accepting within

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Speaker 2: yourself that it's okay, right. I think even before you

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Speaker 2: start looking for people to share it with, do you

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Speaker 2: still think it's a weakness. Because if you think it's

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Speaker 2: a weakness, then when you share it and someone rejects it,

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Speaker 2: you're just going to go and climb into your shell

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Speaker 2: even more. But if you think it's a strength and

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Speaker 2: you believe it's value and you believe it's something you need,

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Speaker 2: I actually this is the hardest advice to give, but

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Speaker 2: it's true. You can have your friends that you play

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Speaker 2: football with and have bands with and have jokes with,

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Speaker 2: and if they're not the ones that you can share

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Speaker 2: this with, you may have to find a separate group

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Speaker 2: of friends where you can talk about these things. And

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you abandon your old friends. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean your old friends are bad. It doesn't mean you

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Speaker 2: have to leave them. It just means that you may

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Speaker 2: have to start creating a community of new men that

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Speaker 2: you can have this community with. Yeah, because if you're

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Speaker 2: being met with your loser dude, you don't need therapy.

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Speaker 2: You just need, you know, to get a pint down

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Speaker 2: the pope. Like, if you're being met with that, then

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Speaker 2: that's not an easy wall to break down.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's not.

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Speaker 2: And first you should try with your friends. You should

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Speaker 2: try with the friends you have, but if you don't,

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Speaker 2: you are going to have to start constructing a new group.

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Speaker 1: I've been seeing these really cool I don't know why

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Speaker 1: I'm getting these ads, but these really cool ads that

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Speaker 1: not ads. But you know, when there are retreats and

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Speaker 1: stuff happening, and there are so many men's retreats that happen.

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Speaker 1: Oh ah, yes, and I think, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: remember recommending this to a friend whose partner was struggling,

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Speaker 1: and I was saying, why don't you go on? Why

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Speaker 1: don't you meet completely new people who are going somewhere

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Speaker 1: for the same reason. If someone's going to a men's retreat,

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Speaker 1: that means that they are lacking male friends, they are

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Speaker 1: wanting to speak to people who are wanting to open

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Speaker 1: their heart, connect heal things from their past, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes you do have to go outside of what

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Speaker 1: you've been used to if you are trying something new

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Speaker 1: with yourself. And I think the other part that I

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Speaker 1: was gonna mention that I remembered seeing online was you know,

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Speaker 1: they are all these really funny I find them really funny.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I can see how for

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Speaker 1: a man who's trying to be more emotional it can

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Speaker 1: make you shut down. It's you know, when you have

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Speaker 1: to now treat your man like a princess and essentially

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Speaker 1: saying that men are being too emotional these days. And

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Speaker 1: I think these days women seem to want a man

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Speaker 1: who is emotionally available but not emotional. So they want

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Speaker 1: someone who's emotionally available, like oh, I need him to

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Speaker 1: understand me, and I want him to get where I'm

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Speaker 1: coming from, and I want him to be attuned to me.

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Speaker 1: But then I don't want him to cry, like I

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Speaker 1: don't want I don't want him to do or when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about X, one of my friends said that

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Speaker 1: one of her biggest X is seeing a man cry

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Speaker 1: or like be emotional. Wow, And I was like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: Like okay, it's so interesting. But I do think whether

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Speaker 1: a woman says it or not, there's quite a few

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Speaker 1: people who feel that way, where a man crying is

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Speaker 1: still seen as being a weeks But I still want

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Speaker 1: you to be emotionally available to me. And so I

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Speaker 1: think for men seeing stuff like that online, we think

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Speaker 1: it's people think it's just funny but I think that

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Speaker 1: can be really difficult because it stops you then from

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Speaker 1: also being okay with the idea that I should be

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Speaker 1: able to cry, be unhappy, show that I'm feeling upset, depressed,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. And so I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we see online can really play a role in

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Speaker 1: how we feel.

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Speaker 2: And that's what makes it hard for men because they

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Speaker 2: then think, now, whether that's Sometimes it's so interesting as

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Speaker 2: well because social media perception is also not reality totally,

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Speaker 2: but then we start believing that is, and then men go, God,

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Speaker 2: I can't share that emotion around her because she's going

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Speaker 2: to think I'm weak. But then I'm carrying this load

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Speaker 2: and I don't know what to do with.

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Speaker 1: It, which then changes me as a partner, as a

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Speaker 1: person to connect to other people.

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Speaker 2: And you would hope you taught me this and I

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Speaker 2: loved it when you said it to me years ago.

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Speaker 2: Which was this idea that and that's why your podcast

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Speaker 2: is called a really Good Cry. Was this idea that

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Speaker 2: crying and laughing are actually just the same, that there

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Speaker 2: are expressions of an emotion, and when you think something

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Speaker 2: is when you think something's really funny, you don't have

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Speaker 2: to think about laughing like you don't go, oh, that's

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Speaker 2: really funny. I'm now going to laugh. You just laugh

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Speaker 2: because it's funny. You don't have to think about crying

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Speaker 2: crying something that happens, when something affects you in your

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Speaker 2: gut or your heart or your emotion, you just cry.

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Speaker 2: You don't go on, now I'm going to cry.

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Speaker 1: You also don't stop laughter. But people stop tears.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, people say stop crying, stop crying. You never

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Speaker 2: say someone stop laughing, stop laughing. Is it would be

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Speaker 2: a weird thing to say. Yeah, And we say, oh no, no,

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Speaker 2: don't cry about that. Don't cry about that. It's okay.

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Speaker 2: And it's like you wouldn't say don't laugh about that,

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Speaker 2: you know, unless you said offensive. This was earlier this year,

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Speaker 2: but Kendrick Lamar did a cover for Harpers Bizarre, and

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Speaker 2: in that piece he talked about.

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Speaker 1: They not like us, they not like us. I'm a

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Speaker 1: wrong person.

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Speaker 2: That is the right person. Good, all right? So he said,

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Speaker 2: j always going to be really impressed by that. He said,

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Speaker 2: my tears is all on the internet. So Lamar says,

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Speaker 2: in reference to a viral moment where he cried on camera,

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Speaker 2: and he goes, and now I look back, and I

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Speaker 2: love that moment. I love that that happened because it

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Speaker 2: showed me in real time expressing myself and seeing all

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Speaker 2: the work that I put forth actually come to life

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Speaker 2: in that moment.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Right, And that's Kendrick Lamar, like, who's you know? One

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Speaker 2: like I don't know how many Grammys this year and

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Speaker 2: performed at the super Bowl And he's saying that, and

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Speaker 2: he goes on to say, my pops, he was tough.

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Speaker 2: He never showed a weakness, and I learned to experience that.

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Speaker 2: But for what I do, there is certainly no growth

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Speaker 2: without vulnerability. If I understood the power of vulnerability earlier,

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Speaker 2: I could have had more depth and more reach to

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Speaker 2: the guys that was around me.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether I'm more shocked at that or

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Speaker 1: the fact that you were at Drake concert last week

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Speaker 1: and I owe quote Kendrick.

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Speaker 2: Lamar, why are you trying to start beef?

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm just saying, why are you starting beef?

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Speaker 1: And honestly, Kendrick, those are some bars.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's just it's I'm sharing that because I hope

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Speaker 2: it's empowering for men, because you see, you know, a

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Speaker 2: conversation Kendrick is like, yeah, rapper, He's having this rap

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Speaker 2: battle he's got at the super Bowl, you know, all

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Speaker 2: this stuff, and it's like, but this is what he's

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Speaker 2: saying about himself and his life. And he's talking about

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Speaker 2: how his dad was tough, his dad never showed any

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Speaker 2: weakness and he learned that. But he's actually saying, I

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Speaker 2: wish I learned the power of vulnerability earlier. And so

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Speaker 2: I'm like, that's coming from you know.

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Speaker 1: It's really difficult for people who you know, just thinking

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Speaker 1: about him as a rapper, but it's I guess if

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Speaker 1: someone who's a rapper and in that scene and in

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Speaker 1: that environment can do something like that, it gives hope

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Speaker 1: to people who may be in an environment like we

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Speaker 1: were talking about before that find it difficult to break

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Speaker 1: out of that same cycle of spending time with people.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that the community is the key

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Speaker 1: fact to feeling like you can open up, and I

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Speaker 1: think building community is one of the hardest things that

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Speaker 1: people find. And that's why I think loneliness, especially in men,

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Speaker 1: if they're not if they're not in a partnership, that

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Speaker 1: also forces them to come together with couples and meet

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Speaker 1: other men it's like where do people meet other people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I think. But I think the

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Speaker 2: other challenges for men is that I think women like

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Speaker 2: to gather in groups, but sometimes men have better conversations

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Speaker 2: one to one. I was at dinner last night with

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Speaker 2: a guy that someone that I became friends with early on.

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Speaker 2: We're part of a meditation group that I was teaching.

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Speaker 2: I bumped into randomly at a grocery store once. We

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Speaker 2: spent three hours that evening together.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we both have crazy travel schedules. We don't see

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Speaker 2: each other often, but we happen to be in London.

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Speaker 2: He's leaving today and we made time to go to

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Speaker 2: dinner together and I'm not we had We both had

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Speaker 2: the best time. It's so nice and we've probably spent

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Speaker 2: three hours talking. It was full on, open conversation, like

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Speaker 2: we dove in deep in thirty minutes and we both

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Speaker 2: walked away going we need to do that more. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like that, like when I'm with a man

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Speaker 2: one on one and we're at the same frequency, I

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Speaker 2: can lock in. Actually, when I'm in group environments, I

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Speaker 2: really struggle because you're trying to create a cohesive environment,

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Speaker 2: but there may be two guys over there who just

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Speaker 2: want to talk about the football. Yeah, there may be

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Speaker 2: another two guys over there who just want to talk

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Speaker 2: about whatever they you know, whatever's happening at work or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is. And then there's a couple of you

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Speaker 2: that actually want to go deeper, but you can't because

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Speaker 2: you can't direct what eight people are doing.

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Speaker 1: It throws off the frequency.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas I feel like women will all talk about

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Speaker 2: one subject together, whereas I think a lot of men

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Speaker 2: I know personally that I feel building one to one

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Speaker 2: friendships is the space where I get to do that.

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Speaker 2: And it was interesting because this was talking about emotional

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Speaker 2: conditioning and how girls and boys start out on the

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Speaker 2: same trajectory of prioritizing friendships, but boys feel pressure to

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Speaker 2: give up their same sex friendships because it feels girly.

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Speaker 2: Oh So that idea of like hanging out together and

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Speaker 2: us talking about our feelings boys are conditioned to feel

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Speaker 2: that that's a girly thing to do what you.

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Speaker 1: Felt with that guy is called the bromance.

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Speaker 2: One thing I learned as well was I needed I

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Speaker 2: needed friends in my industry because they also have a

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Speaker 2: shorthand for how I feel and That's how he felt too.

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Speaker 2: It's like having friends that are in a similar industry.

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Speaker 1: You already have something in common, you already have an understanding.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think women feel that way too.

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Speaker 1: I've been speaking about a friend that I've made recently

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Speaker 1: who feels I feel like I've known for so long.

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Speaker 1: But when you feel that connection to a friend, when

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Speaker 1: you feel understood by them, when you feel like you

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Speaker 1: can share a lot of yourself that you can't normally

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Speaker 1: with other people, it really is. I think friendships are

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Speaker 1: so close to the feelings of romantic relationships. And I

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Speaker 1: don't mean that in a weird way, but it really is.

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Speaker 1: It sparks the same excitement and because you feel understood.

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Speaker 1: And I remember you saying this, I think on my

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Speaker 1: podcast where you said not everyone is supposed to understand you,

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Speaker 1: and love is understanding and love is also so special

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Speaker 1: that you don't feel it with so many people. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: you feel in a romantic partnership, but how beautiful if

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Speaker 1: you can actually feel it with friendships too. And I

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Speaker 1: think women are feeling lonely as well. I think finding community, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think finding community for women is so difficult because

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Speaker 1: in women you also have this aspect of unfortunately, where

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Speaker 1: gossip is a big part of connection, and I think

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Speaker 1: that makes a lot of women feel insecure in friendships

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Speaker 1: because gossip ends up being a big part of it.

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Speaker 2: Now you feel like if you say something to someone,

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Speaker 2: they're going to tell someone else in the group, and

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Speaker 2: that trust being broken makes it uncomfortable to actually vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I think that's a big part

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Speaker 1: of female friendship unfortunately, especially what I grew up with.

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Speaker 1: And I think this one to one connection what you said,

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Speaker 1: is very important because even for women, finding that one

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Speaker 1: to one connection where you feel you can confide in

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Speaker 1: this person. I think for women a big thing is

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Speaker 1: trust that can I trust what I'm telling this girl,

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Speaker 1: She's not judging me, She's not going to share it

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Speaker 1: with anybody else. I think that something that's quite rare.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting hearing about it from that perspective.

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Speaker 2: I've found the one to one thing to be the

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Speaker 2: solver for this. I've recommended it so many of my

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Speaker 2: male friends, and I've said, guys, we always hang out

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Speaker 2: in big groups.

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Speaker 1: I used to be a pack person. Yeah, No, I

437
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,199
Speaker 1: mean I've always loved hanging out in big groups. And

438
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: I've recently started spending individual time with someone that I

439
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: really want to spend individual time with, and it makes

440
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: such a difference.

441
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's I think it's also like,

442
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,239
Speaker 2: you have to find people who want to do this,

443
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 2: So not every person I go out to dinner with,

444
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: like yesterday is somewhere where I walk away going, oh,

445
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 2: we could do this anytime, because maybe the conversation stays

446
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 2: surface level, so there is a bit of frequency matching.

447
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: You have to assess the situation.

448
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't think, and I also don't think

449
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 2: every friend of yours to be a real friend has

450
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 2: to have a deep conversation with. There are friends that

451
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: I'm happy to call up and be like, did you

452
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: see what Manchester United just did? Like I want to

453
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: have that relationship with them, and I would love if

454
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: that can also go to how are you feeling today?

455
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: But not every relationship has to do that, And so

456
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: sometimes I also feel we put too much pressure on

457
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: everyone in our life to be everything.

458
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 1: What do you think of some good questions? And then

459
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: people could ask themselves, like men, what are some good

460
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: questions that men could ask themselves to understand am I

461
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: feeling like? Am I feeling like I don't have a

462
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: good connection with people, but then also questions that they

463
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: can maybe open up this idea of vulnerability with their

464
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: friends with that doesn't feel too scary or too intense.

465
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: We all want to feel better, to have more energy

466
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,959
Speaker 2: and more focus throughout the day. That's why I co

467
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 2: founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenet drink made with powerful ingredients

468
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,640
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469
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Speaker 2: support your focus, and give you natural energy, all without

470
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 2: the crash. A new classic reimagined. We're so excited to

471
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,439
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472
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: create a Juny, my goal was simple. I wanted to

473
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: make drinks that help you feel balanced and energized without compromise.

474
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,440
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475
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476
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,679
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477
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,480
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478
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,520
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479
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: first order. Cheers to your daily mood boost. Well, you

480
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: all want to feel better, to have more energy and

481
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: more focus throughout the day. That's why I co founded Juny,

482
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: a sparkling adaptogenet drink made with powerful ingredients like Ushwagandha

483
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: and Lion's Maine. It's designed to boost your mood, support

484
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: your focus, and give you natural energy, all without the crash.

485
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Get your daily mood boost with Juni at Whole Foods

486
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: Market or head to Drinkjuni dot com to find a

487
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: store near you. I think men that are lonely is

488
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: do you have So if a man wants to know

489
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: whether he's lonely or not, do you have three friends

490
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: that you could call at three am and share something

491
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: that you're struggling with?

492
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: Even one friend?

493
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: Even one friend? Yeah, that that's something I would look at.

494
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 2: And then I would also ask, for a man, do

495
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: you have one friend that you could call to share

496
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: your biggest win with? Because sometimes that can be harder. Yes,

497
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: because sharing your pain is hard, But sharing your success

498
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: is harder because it can come across as bravado, arrogance, yes, etcetera.

499
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: And so you may feel you have to play your

500
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: success down. And so I think that's what I would

501
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 2: look at. So that helps you figure out whether you're

502
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: lonely or not. And then it's like, do you feel

503
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: you have someone in your life who doesn't judge you

504
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: and gives you the space to be all of yourself?

505
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: And that's what you said. Women need that too. We

506
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: all want a space in our life where we feel

507
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: seen and not judged. Yes, actually you say this, This

508
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: is really interesting. This guy came up to me. He

509
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: worked at the restaurant that I went to last night,

510
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: and he came up to me afterwards when I was leaving,

511
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: and he said, hey, I listen to the podcast. Really

512
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: love what you're doing. Me and my wife love what

513
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: you and your wife are doing. And he said, but

514
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: sometimes I just don't feel seen.

515
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 3: Oh.

516
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: Interesting, And he said, sometimes I feel only successful people

517
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: feel seen, and I'm still trying to become successful and

518
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: I'm not there yet. And I said to him, I said, actually,

519
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: success for people also don't feel seen because they feel

520
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: seen through a particular lens, Whereas the most seen I

521
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: feel is when I'm with my wife or with a

522
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: deep old friend that I know, and they see all

523
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: of me. And I was like, you're going to feel

524
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: more seen if you spend time with people deeply and

525
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: individually than you are. If you have a global brand.

526
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: If you have lots of eyes on you, you have.

527
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: Lots of eyes.

528
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: You're seen.

529
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you feel seen. It's like you have views,

530
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: but you don't feel seen. And because people are ultimately

531
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: catching you for thirty seconds and making a judgment on you. Yes,

532
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: and so anyway, I know I got off on a tangent,

533
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: but no.

534
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: But that's really that's such a good point. I think.

535
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: You know, even when you're younger, you think you need

536
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: more friends and you have to have multiple people that

537
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: you can do different things with. But as you get older,

538
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: you realize that it's not necessarily about having how many

539
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: people you can invite to your birthday. I was planning

540
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: my birthday recently, and I think I have like eight

541
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: friends who I can call here maybe and I don't

542
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: even know what all of them are going to end

543
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: up coming. And at that time, it maybe realize how

544
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: how thankful I am for just those eight friends. It

545
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,239
Speaker 1: wasn't oh, I've got twenty family members coming and like

546
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: eight friends coming. It was, oh, wow, I've got eight

547
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: friends that are here that I want to spend time with.

548
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: And then I was trying to collect other people and

549
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: add people to it. That I was like, do I

550
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: really need these people here? Or am I trying to

551
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: collect numbers to feel like I've got more friends unnecessarily?

552
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: And so I think the views versus being seen is

553
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: a really important part of when you're thinking about friendships,

554
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: because you don't need to have one hundred people at

555
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: your birthday party. You need three people that you can

556
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: go to when you're in your hardest moments, when you

557
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: feel like you've done something that you need to talk

558
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: about that you're judging yourself about, that you feel that

559
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: person's not going to judge you for, And that's so

560
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: much more important than having the thirty friends at your

561
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: birthday party.

562
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you made my tangent relevant. Yeah, it's

563
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: really good. That's really good. But no, that's exactly it.

564
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: Like I think, I think a lot of men feel

565
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: lonely because we're always in crowds. That's the idea that

566
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: you're always in groups, And so that the same idea

567
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: that you're saying is that we've always been taught that

568
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: more friends means more happiness. Yes, and less friends can

569
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 2: actually equal more happiness if there's more intimacy more depth

570
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: to that relationship. Loneliness is linked to depression, anxiety, dementia, diabetes, stroke,

571
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: and heart disease, and loneliness can be as harmful as

572
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: smoking fifteen cigarettes per day.

573
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I worked at the hospital, I would do

574
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: these clinics for elderly and it would be to do

575
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: with them not eating. And it was so interesting the

576
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: underweight people that used to come in in the elderly

577
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: clinics would be like eighty percent men and only twenty

578
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: percent women. Because they talk about how especially for men,

579
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: they're eating habits, the way that they connect to people.

580
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: If they're not having that interaction, and if their partners

581
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: passed away or whatever, they lose the world to do

582
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: much else in their life. And so it was really

583
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: interesting seeing how eighty percent of those people that were

584
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: coming in and our older state were people who were lonely,

585
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: spent most of the time in their home. And even

586
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: when it came to dementia, it says being in a

587
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: community or feeling a sense of purpose in your life,

588
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: whether it is within a community or whether it is

589
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: with your partner, completely changes the trajectory of your The

590
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: progression of dementia and your longevity and the feeling of

591
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: being wanted and needed in this world is so important

592
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: to help keep your mental state alive, And so for

593
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: men especially, I think there's a I've seen so many

594
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 1: older women who are able to get back up faster

595
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: once their partners died, but I think naturally for a man,

596
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: from what I've seen, it ends up being a lot

597
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: more difficult. So I think that's another reason why having

598
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: friends is so important. Don't think about it for now,

599
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: you have to think about it for your future of

600
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: when you are in a situation where maybe you have

601
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: to be alone or away from your partner. Do I

602
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: have people that I'm going to be able to turn

603
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: to in those moments, because that's what community is supposed

604
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: to be there for.

605
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and the research shows that men are happier

606
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: when they're married, but women are unhappier when they're married. Really,

607
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: or at least I think your study says that men

608
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: live longer when they're married and women don't live as

609
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: long when they're married, because I've seen them and carry

610
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: on more stress. Yeah, and men are actually helped by

611
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 2: the marriage.

612
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: You notice that when people lose their partners at a

613
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: young age or in an old age. Men struggle so

614
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: much more than women do. Women are just used to

615
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: going through the pain. They also are use to most

616
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: of the systems and the things that they have to

617
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: do in the house, like they're able to adapt faster,

618
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: whereas they think for men that's really difficult.

619
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one was really interesting and it's kind of

620
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: based on what you're saying.

621
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: There's this.

622
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Hall, a professor of communication studies at the University

623
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: of Kansas who studies friendships. He previously found it can

624
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: take two hundred hours to make a close friend two

625
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: hundred and he talks about how men rely on their

626
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: wives to develop the social calendar, so they think they'll

627
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: do it and I don't have to do it, and

628
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: he says that there's a challenge in their skill set.

629
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: So it's the idea that women plan the social calendar

630
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: and men just tag along to whatever the women plan,

631
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: and so they don't ever think about, well, I need

632
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: to find the mayor, I need to do this, I

633
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: need to do that. My wife's kind of planned the weekend,

634
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: or just do whatever she says, and so he doesn't

635
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: really spend that much time.

636
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: So good at planning your social calendar. Yeah, but you've

637
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: really had to work at it.

638
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just think you've really.

639
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: Had to make a point of saying, two days a week,

640
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: I'm going to meet friends. I'm going to catch up

641
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: with this you've got. I feel like you've got a

642
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: good system in place of these are the friends I

643
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: need to catch up with once a month, I'm going

644
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: to do this with this person. Once a week, I'm

645
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: going to meet this person. And it's good You've you've

646
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: really learned how to create that cycle and system to

647
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: make sure that you do connects.

648
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I like it important to think about

649
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: their life, like, think about everything mathematically, and everything becomes simpler.

650
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: Right if you make it about you know, how you're feeling,

651
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: how you're feeling on that day, it will just it will,

652
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: you know. There's so many times like yesterday, before the dinner,

653
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: I was so close to canceling because I was a

654
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: bit tired. Yeah, so glad I didn't. And that's where

655
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: systems help. And so it's like who do you want

656
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: to see once a week, who do you want to

657
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: see once a month, who do you want to see

658
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: once a quarter, and who do you want to see

659
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: once a year. If you have a list of the

660
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: people in those buckets, Yeah, it becomes really really simple.

661
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: So I'm with you every day whenever we're in the

662
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: same country, we're together every day, which is awesome. And

663
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: then but then there's friends. I'm like, okay, I'm going

664
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: to see you once or twice a week. I'm going

665
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: to see you, and that allows me to simplify my

666
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: life and now it's not random. And then I don't

667
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: go three months and go, why haven't I seen that person? Ye,

668
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: them like I love seeing them, and it's like, well, no,

669
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: just have it in the system. And now I don't

670
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: have to feel that way. And so I'm just allowing

671
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: myself to be more effective with friendships. And people think

672
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: that that might be business like or transactional. Actually that's

673
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: what love and respect actually is, where it's like, I

674
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: respect you enough, you're in the calendar, I want to

675
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: see you every month, and it allows us to deepen

676
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: our friendship and then at the end of the year,

677
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: we get to think about all the amazing memories we make.

678
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

679
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: I think what we all have to realize is that

680
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: friendship is a learned skill and it's not something you're

681
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: born with. And so we almost assume that people should

682
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: know how to be a good friend. We assume people

683
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: should know how to be a good partner, We assume

684
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: someone should know how to be a good parent, And

685
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: the reality is all of those skills are learned. And

686
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: so for me as a man, if you're listening to

687
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you

688
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: to know that there are other men out there that

689
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: feel lonely, which means that you actually have the opportunity

690
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: to become community for each other. And that truly starts

691
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: with you having the courage to share something vulnerably openly,

692
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: honestly and seeing who matches that frequency. And it's as

693
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: simple as that is. Not everyone's going to match your frequency.

694
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: Someone might joke with you, someone might laugh at you,

695
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: someone might just play it off. That's okay, because chances

696
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: are'm five to ten years time, they may come back

697
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: to you and say, I'm sorry I did that. I'm

698
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: going through something right now, but for now they aren't

699
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: that person. That doesn't mean they're bad, it doesn't mean

700
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: you reject them. Just go find the people that you

701
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,479
Speaker 2: want to connect with. How have you seen men in

702
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: your life apart from me struggle or do well in friendships?

703
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: What has worked for them and what has not work

704
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: for them?

705
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: I think sometimes well, especially in our community, men have

706
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: a lot of family members that they can like socialize with.

707
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: But I have noticed as time goes on, you know,

708
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: I think about my dad and I remember he used

709
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: to have like a huge social life when he was younger,

710
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,479
Speaker 1: and then as he's gotten old and older, that Paul

711
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: has definitely gotten smaller and smaller. But he I randomly

712
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: walk into his office or I'll randomly walk into the

713
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: room and he's having a conversation with his best friend,

714
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: my uncle, who he's known since he was at university,

715
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: and they're talking about things, whether it's through their physical

716
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: health or they're you know, here and there. But they'll

717
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: still have these once a month catch up conversations. He

718
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: doesn't really see them. They don't go out necessarily, they

719
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: don't go out and have a meal together. But he

720
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: has these two or three people who I know he

721
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: is speaking to. There's like Andreas, there's my uncle, there's

722
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: one other person. I know that he has these people

723
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: that will checking in on him and that he's checking

724
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: in on And so I think friendships also change as

725
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: time goes on. They don't have to look the same way.

726
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: You don't have to be going out. I don't mind

727
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: keep saying the pub. Why don't keep thinking about that's

728
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: a thing. You don't have to keep going out to

729
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: the pub to meet your friends. But you know that

730
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: those people are still available to you. And so I

731
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 1: think what you were saying is can you make that call?

732
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: I know my dad seems like I always wonder, oh,

733
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: it's my dad got friends and he's going out and about,

734
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 1: But actually he's got those people he can call. And

735
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: I think that's something that's built over time university and

736
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: he's in his seventi he's like seventy now, and he's

737
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: kept that connection from that point. He knows every time

738
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: I struggle with anything or he thinks he needs something,

739
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: he calls them and he knows that they've got the

740
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: advice or they've got the ability to help him. And

741
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 1: I think that has been again, it's a learned skill.

742
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: It's been built, learnt and built over since he was

743
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: twenty years old till seventy. And that takes work. That

744
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: takes the phone calls every week, the checking in every month,

745
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: showing up when something's happened in their life, and so

746
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: I think it takes a lot more effort than just

747
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: this book a tennis court.

748
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for listening. Everyone, drop in the comments,

749
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: how you've been creating great friendships, what you're struggling with.

750
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: You'll even connect with people in the comment section, which

751
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: we'd love to see, and make sure you tag me

752
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok me and Radi on what's resonated

753
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: with you, what you're trying, and the great friendships that

754
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: come from this. So thank you for listening. Hey everyone,

755
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: if you love that conversation, go and check out my

756
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: episode with the world's leading therapist Lurie Gottlieb, where she

757
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: answers the biggest questions that people ask in therapy when

758
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating. If you're

759
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 2: trying to figure out that space right now, you won't

760
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: want to miss this conversation.

761
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard

762
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: to argue.

763
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as

764
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: you're having the conversation.

765
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: It's so lovely.