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Speaker 1: recognize from where they're coming from and see it from

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Speaker 1: their perspective, you may never know and you may continue

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Speaker 1: living this life thinking that nobody really cares about me

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Speaker 1: because you're not stepping outside of yourself and so in relationship.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to this very special episode of

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Speaker 1: On Purpose. Thanks to our partners that Better Help for

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Speaker 1: this episode today, I'm joined with Hay Sue Joe, licensed

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Speaker 1: therapist and head of clinical operations at Better Help. Hey, everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Purpose. Thank you so much for coming

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Speaker 1: back to listen to today's episode. I'm so grateful that

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Speaker 1: you trust me. I'm so grateful that you value your

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Speaker 1: time here with On Purpose so much, and I want

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Speaker 1: you to know that I deeply value each and every

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Speaker 1: one of you that make time in your days and

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Speaker 1: your weeks to connect here. And as you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: always trying to come up with new ideas, creative ways

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Speaker 1: of helping you learn about your journey towards happiness, towards healing,

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Speaker 1: and towards health. And one of the ways I like

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Speaker 1: to do that is I love experiments, I always have,

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Speaker 1: and I like doing things myself and putting myself in

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable positions. And so one of the series that we

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Speaker 1: started off here was me going to therapy and doing

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Speaker 1: a therapy session as an episode as a way to

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Speaker 1: show you how accessible it is, how simple it is,

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Speaker 1: how useful it can be, and also for you to

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Speaker 1: get to know me better as well. I really want

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Speaker 1: to be able to be more open with you. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes when I'm doing a four minute interview on TV,

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Speaker 1: or even if I do a podcast episode with someone else,

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Speaker 1: the conversation can seem very specific to what I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: but not necessarily specific to me. So this is all

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Speaker 1: of you who would like to know a bit more

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Speaker 1: about me, learn a bit more about me and how

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Speaker 1: I ended up the way I did, but also encouraging

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Speaker 1: the conversation of how did you get to where you

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Speaker 1: are today? What is it about your life that you

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Speaker 1: can learn from or grow from and can serve you

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Speaker 1: differently if you thought about it differently. So I want

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Speaker 1: to give a big thanks to our incredible partners a

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Speaker 1: better help for this episode. Our incredible therapist. Hey Sue,

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Speaker 1: who's here with me today? Again, You've seen her in

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Speaker 1: three episodes before this, and this is our fourth episode

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Speaker 1: in this series, so make sure you go back and

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Speaker 1: listen to the other three if you haven't already. Hey, Sue,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this again. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: always great to be with you. A And I feel

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Speaker 1: like after our first therapy session, I feel it's amazing

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Speaker 1: how you build a relationship with someone so quickly because

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Speaker 1: you're so vulnerable with someone. How do you use a

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Speaker 1: therapist monitor that relationship building? Because almost like as a patient,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this person's like kind of

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Speaker 1: like knows everything about me now, more than what some

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Speaker 1: of my friends may know about me. Not my closest friends,

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Speaker 1: but some friends and people start feeling close to their

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Speaker 1: therapist cause of vulnerability. How what's the professional line and

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Speaker 1: how do you maintain that because I can imagine a

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Speaker 1: lot of people start trusting you deeply. Man, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you already know, but this is like a

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Speaker 1: focal point in the education of therapists and continuing education.

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Speaker 1: This thing you're talking about, you know, your your clients

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Speaker 1: begin to feel close to your Your clients will also

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Speaker 1: love you. Some of your clients will fall in love

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Speaker 1: with you. Sometimes you're the first person or one of

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Speaker 1: the only people. That gives them the experience of being

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Speaker 1: seen without criticism and judgment, which is like very rare

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Speaker 1: in today's modern world when we're trying to connect with people.

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Speaker 1: So managing this relationship that becomes very intimate is really

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Speaker 1: important to protect you, to protect the client. So people

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Speaker 1: will hear of things like the Code of Ethics, and

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Speaker 1: these exist to protect the public. Right. It's like, therapists

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Speaker 1: gain a lot of power in this relationship. I know

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Speaker 1: so much about you, but you don't really know anything

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Speaker 1: about me, and I could use that with my clients

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Speaker 1: to a huge advantage. So that is very dangerous, I think.

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Speaker 1: And so these codes of ethics ensure that we are

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Speaker 1: protecting our clients. We're managing our feelings about our clients,

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Speaker 1: the feelings that our clients develop about us. It has

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Speaker 1: a word, it's called transference, and the feelings that I

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Speaker 1: develop for you, that's countertransference. And these are things that

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Speaker 1: we have to process and things that therapists are encouraged

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Speaker 1: to go to therapy for consult with other people throughout

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Speaker 1: their practice in order to keep things healthy, in order

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Speaker 1: to keep things in line with the goal, which is

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Speaker 1: to help you meet your ambitions and your goals. It's

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Speaker 1: not about anything to do with what my emotional intentions

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Speaker 1: or my ego is, but it is something that we

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Speaker 1: are meant to be mindful to manage because there are

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Speaker 1: times where when you're not managing it, it turns into

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Speaker 1: a very messy situation. And you're like, folks have heard

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Speaker 1: of these things. You know, people can lose their license

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Speaker 1: because they've take an advantage of a client entered a

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Speaker 1: very personal relationship, which is a huge no no. So

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Speaker 1: for me, it's like just knowing and understanding your clients

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Speaker 1: will develop very strong feelings about and towards you, and

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Speaker 1: continuing to be the safe person that's responsible for establishing

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Speaker 1: healthy boundaries and making it very clear, like what is

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Speaker 1: this relationship that makes a lot of sense? Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. I love that. All right, well, let's dive

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Speaker 1: in over to you again. I will hand over my

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Speaker 1: host hat to you to get into the zone. So

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Speaker 1: that's what I kind of am interested in talking about

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Speaker 1: today with you is relationships. So I don't know what

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Speaker 1: you're willing to share about that, but can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about what being in relationship means to you? And

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Speaker 1: like what is important about humans doing that? I think

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Speaker 1: having a relationship with anyone is is very sacred. If

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Speaker 1: you're both making time, sharing energy. You know, whether it's

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Speaker 1: my wife, whether it's one of my best friends, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a team member. I think about relationships as an

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Speaker 1: exchange of energy, and I want that energy that is

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Speaker 1: created and exchange to be positive and healthy for both people.

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Speaker 1: I also think about it as a safe space, and

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Speaker 1: hence I call it sacred. It's it's a safe space

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Speaker 1: that where you feel trusted, where you feel someone wants

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Speaker 1: to try to understand, and where you feel that your

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Speaker 1: openness will not be used against you or will not

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Speaker 1: be taken advantage of. And beyond all of that, there's

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Speaker 1: a sense of knowing. And when I say knowing, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean someone's a mind reader and they know what

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about. It's that as you start to talk

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Speaker 1: to that person, you know they know what you mean

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Speaker 1: and because they've had so many experiences with you. That's

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Speaker 1: how I see relationships today. But I think when I

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Speaker 1: was growing up, I think I was so in love

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Speaker 1: with the idea of love that I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: be in love. And I think a lot of that

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Speaker 1: came from just watching too many bad movies. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of my initial ideas on love were based

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Speaker 1: on terrible movies that you see as a kid, whether

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Speaker 1: it's American Pie, Road Trip, tons of Bollywood movies too,

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Speaker 1: that Bollywood movies almost portrayed this really glamorous view of love,

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Speaker 1: and I think Hollywood movies at the time portrayed a

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Speaker 1: very lusty like view of love, and you kind of

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Speaker 1: get caught somewhere in between of like infatuation attraction and

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Speaker 1: then this glamorized version of love is where I think

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Speaker 1: I ended up. And so to me, I was always

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Speaker 1: wanting to be in love without knowing what it was,

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Speaker 1: without knowing what it required from the other person. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to give love and be loving and have love.

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Speaker 1: And I think that led to a lot of issues

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Speaker 1: growing up when I first started dating, because when I

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Speaker 1: first started dating, I was around fourteen years old, and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of like that person who just went

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Speaker 1: above and beyond all the time with anyone, whether I

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Speaker 1: just met them or whether I'd known them for a while,

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Speaker 1: and that was quite new for I guess the girls

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Speaker 1: that I was doing as well. We were all fairly young,

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Speaker 1: and so whether we were in our first relationships or

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Speaker 1: a second to have someone who was that overly giving

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Speaker 1: was quite People appreciated it, people liked it. But I

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Speaker 1: realized that I was doing it, and I realized this afterwards.

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Speaker 1: I was doing it because I just wanted them to

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Speaker 1: like me. It's not that I actually beyond being attracted

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Speaker 1: to them, or beyond being infatuated with them, or whatever

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Speaker 1: it may have been. I don't think I actually knew

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Speaker 1: anything about them, But I liked the idea of someone

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Speaker 1: that I felt attracted to liking me and validating me

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Speaker 1: and thinking I was a good person, and thinking that

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Speaker 1: I was special, and thinking that I was important. When

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Speaker 1: your mind is developing, this means your worldview is developing,

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Speaker 1: which will later turn into your personal philosophy. So many

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Speaker 1: things can impact it. So like, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: this is how people should live their lives, but personally,

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Speaker 1: I have witnessed so much and observed how detrimental it

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Speaker 1: is to engage in many things as a developing young mind,

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Speaker 1: whether that substance cannabis, alcohol, sex, like, these kinds of

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Speaker 1: things which are highly emotionally charged, when you don't even

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Speaker 1: understand what's happening to you, when your state of mind

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Speaker 1: is being altered. It's very difficult to reconcile that as

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Speaker 1: an adult. It like totally impacts you and you see

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Speaker 1: it now, Like there's so much research that shows kids

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Speaker 1: that do these things. I'm not saying it's caused, but

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot more prevalence of mental health

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Speaker 1: issues for kids that engage in these things versus kids

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Speaker 1: that don't. So what we're hearing is that it's it's

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Speaker 1: guaranteed that if you're in relationships in your teens, you're

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Speaker 1: going to go through a ton of pain. Either way,

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Speaker 1: we're going to make mistakes, Like it's likely that we're

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Speaker 1: going to make mistakes, and some of those mistakes become

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Speaker 1: really damaging and traumatic long term stay with you for

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Speaker 1: I remember that. So my parents never wanted me to

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Speaker 1: have a relationship until I was Ideally they would never

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Speaker 1: have wanted me to have a relationship until I was married,

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Speaker 1: And so I never told my parents when I was dating.

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Speaker 1: Like my parents who have no if my parents listened

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Speaker 1: to the episode, they have no idea that I've had

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend. They probably have some idea now, but like

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Speaker 1: they would never have known that I was dating at fourteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it became so much more attractive to me to

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Speaker 1: one a day because my parents didn't want me to day.

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Speaker 1: And then obviously in culture, you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: a loser again if you don't date. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's hard because I agree with you. I

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Speaker 1: think you wouldn't make as much mistakes, you wouldn't learn

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Speaker 1: as much. It it's complicated anyway. Parents sometimes they're not

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Speaker 1: conscious of why, why they're even setting that role. If

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Speaker 1: they could articulate it and if a fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: could understand it. It's like we're saying this out of

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Speaker 1: the wisdom of knowing that you are still absorbing the

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Speaker 1: world and we want you to absorb it in a

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Speaker 1: way that's inviting, welcoming, loving something that you can feel

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Speaker 1: is safe. But they don't always know how to say that.

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Speaker 1: It's just like no dating until you're married. Yeah, so powerful,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I love that you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: there's like a difference in how you view relationships then

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Speaker 1: versus now, Like can you tell me this is a

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Speaker 1: big question, but can you tell me, like what happened

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Speaker 1: to the in between, Like how did you get to

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Speaker 1: this place now of how you view relationships? Well, lots

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Speaker 1: of failed relationships that lots of heartbreak. What used to

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Speaker 1: happen was I would overlove someone. Again I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: it was loved, but I would overgive, and when someone

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Speaker 1: couldn't keep up with my rate of giving, I would

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Speaker 1: walk away. So you're looking for that. I was looking

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Speaker 1: for it back, Yeah, exactly. I was like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: loving you, and it's so it was almost like I

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Speaker 1: was setting the standard of how much lover I was

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Speaker 1: going to give, and then if they didn't match my standard,

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Speaker 1: which I had made up anyway, they never even asked

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Speaker 1: for it, then I would be upset. And that was

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Speaker 1: extremely unhealthy. Now I see that, because you end up

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Speaker 1: feeling like the victim and you end up feeling like

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Speaker 1: they wronged you, when in fact, you said a false

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Speaker 1: standard and hurt that person because that person was feeling

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Speaker 1: overly loved by you. And then the next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: you walked away and it's all over and they're wondering

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Speaker 1: what went wrong there too, And so I think there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of failed relationships where and again I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that everyone I did it was perfect and

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Speaker 1: that I messed up in that way. There was you know,

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Speaker 1: there's obviously there's a lot of mutual responsibility. But I

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Speaker 1: think what happened in between was I became a monk.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the through line of how much of my

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Speaker 1: life where it's like, for three years, I didn't date.

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Speaker 1: I didn't I was celibate for three years. You don't

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Speaker 1: really interact with women when you're a monk. And I

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Speaker 1: think part of the reason why I did that was

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Speaker 1: because I've obviously simplified some of my experience of how

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Speaker 1: I was. But I also got to a place where

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Speaker 1: I couldn't keep a healthy relationship, like I didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: a long term relationship. There was something that would go wrong,

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Speaker 1: and I was just sick of relationships. I was like,

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Speaker 1: this isn't I just don't want to put in this

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Speaker 1: work for what reason? Like why am I putting in

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Speaker 1: all this work to try and make this thing work

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Speaker 1: with very little benefit? And I'd rather go and work

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Speaker 1: on myself and help the world or whatever it may

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Speaker 1: have been at the time, which we've talked about previously.

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Speaker 1: And so I think there was a part of me

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Speaker 1: that was just feeling like I don't know how to

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Speaker 1: get a relationship right. Yeah, I think what happened in

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Speaker 1: between was spending three years on my own allowed me

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Speaker 1: to re clarify and reidentify what love was to me.

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Speaker 1: Not what love was to my family or in the

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Speaker 1: movies or to some of the people i'd met, but

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Speaker 1: what was love to me? What kind of relationship did

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Speaker 1: I want? And obviously, like living as a monk, even

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Speaker 1: though you're not dating, you develop a lot of good

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Speaker 1: skills for dating, like patience and commitment and discipline and

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Speaker 1: understanding and listening and mindfulness, and so there's so many

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Speaker 1: great skills that you gain that then become very useful

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Speaker 1: when you start dating. And so then, since I left

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Speaker 1: the monastery, the only person I've ever dated is my wife,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're all constantly working on things even today,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely feel a lot more stability with her

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Speaker 1: than I've felt before, and a lot more commitment and

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Speaker 1: love there than I've felt before. And obviously that's a

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Speaker 1: lot to do with her as well, that's not just me,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that's what changed it becoming a monk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you mentioned, you know, as a monk. In the

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Speaker 1: three years you were a monk, and many people stay

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Speaker 1: monks until they leave this earth, right, And I'm understanding

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Speaker 1: that you're saying monks don't date monks or cellible, So

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Speaker 1: can you refresh my memory why that is? And it's

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Speaker 1: not just in one kind of monk, right, you see

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Speaker 1: this across cultural differentness. Yeah, so why is that? Can

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Speaker 1: you remind me? I mean, there's many different reasons, and

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Speaker 1: I can't speak from anyone beyond my tradition obviously, but

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Speaker 1: I would say that the number one reason is to

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Speaker 1: create a sense of focus and aligned energy. So if

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Speaker 1: we all believe that we have a certain amount of energy,

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Speaker 1: and the more things we add to that, the more

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Speaker 1: it takes away our energy in different directions. Now, being

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Speaker 1: celibate or get into a relationship is one of those,

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Speaker 1: but it's the same as having a career as a monkey.

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Speaker 1: You don't have a job, right, And so it's the

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Speaker 1: same reasoning where it's like, well, what if all of

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Speaker 1: your energy was placed in self mastery and self realization

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Speaker 1: and you didn't use your energy for anything else or

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Speaker 1: anyone else or anyone else, would you not have the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to go deep into the self. And so it's

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Speaker 1: not about women or celibacy or like, it's not about

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Speaker 1: the external idea of like some people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well money is bad and women are bad and that's

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Speaker 1: where you stay. And it's like, well, no, it's got

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. It's not like you don't

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Speaker 1: have a job because money is bad, or you don't

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Speaker 1: have a partner because you know a certain gender is bad.

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Speaker 1: It's the idea that how could you limit all your

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Speaker 1: distractions or how could you limit all your focus as

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Speaker 1: an energy to the pursuit of self realization and anything

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Speaker 1: above the pursuit of self realization is seen as unimportant

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Speaker 1: at that stage of life, and I think there's beauty

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Speaker 1: in that. I think when I think about getting three

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Speaker 1: years of my life to have an exclusive focus on

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Speaker 1: self realization, I would say it works. And I would

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Speaker 1: think about this often. I'm like, when did people ever

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Speaker 1: in their lives have three days for self realization, let

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Speaker 1: alone three weeks, three months, or three years? And so

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Speaker 1: I think it worked. I think it was true. I

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Speaker 1: do believe that carving out exclusive time for yourself and

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Speaker 1: self realization is a beautiful commitment to yourself and you

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Speaker 1: don't have to go and become a monk to do it.

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Speaker 1: I think therapy is one way to do it and

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Speaker 1: is a great way to do that. Every week you're

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Speaker 1: carving out an hour or two hours for yourself and

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Speaker 1: understanding yourself, and so over years that will add up.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that the idea of the concept

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Speaker 1: you don't have to become a monk to do it,

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Speaker 1: but the idea and the concept of investing your energy

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Speaker 1: exclusively in self realization is a healthy one. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for t human detour, because you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: clients may have this idea that therapists know everything about

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Speaker 1: all kinds of people. So sometimes I may ask you

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Speaker 1: to remind me why something is the way it was

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Speaker 1: in some peace of your life, because it helps me

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Speaker 1: understand you better as I seek to understand you better

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Speaker 1: as I accompany you through whatever it is that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to explore about yourself. So I really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking the time to help me understand that. Yeah, of course,

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Speaker 1: And in all of that I'm hearing like becoming a monk,

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Speaker 1: which we talked about previously, a large part of it

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Speaker 1: was maybe you couldn't articulate it before you became one,

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Speaker 1: but after this journey, it was about being able to

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Speaker 1: validate yourself. Yes, and it sounds like all your early relationships,

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Speaker 1: you're really seeking this validation from someone else. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was validation for because I guess I didn't like myself.

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Speaker 1: It was the idea of how do you buy someone's love?

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Speaker 1: Is it a fancy gift, is it a posh restaurant,

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Speaker 1: is it a is it me overdoing it for their

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Speaker 1: birthday when we barely know each other? Like what what

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Speaker 1: am I overcompensating for? And I'm overcompensating for the fact

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Speaker 1: that I'm not sure I think I'm worthy or I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure that I like myself enough, and I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that this will win that person over and then we'll

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00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: have that romantic love in the movies. And that was

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Speaker 1: the only way to get through to them was to

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Speaker 1: do these grand gestures. I've always been someone who considers

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Speaker 1: themselves to be someone and I still to this day

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Speaker 1: love grand gestures. And I've married someone who doesn't appreciate

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Speaker 1: grand gestures, and it took me ages to understand that.

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Speaker 1: And I think my wife, because I do love her

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Speaker 1: deeper than that, was one of the few people who's

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Speaker 1: been able to teach me that that grand gestures don't

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Speaker 1: equal love or are not the only way to show love,

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Speaker 1: because she didn't receive them with the glorification and adulation

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Speaker 1: of oh, you're amazing. She kind of received them as like, well,

359
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Speaker 1: I didn't really want this, or this is not this

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00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: doesn't really make me happy. And in my head when

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00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 1: we first started dating, it was like, well, you're weird.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's like, how can you not be happy? Look?

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Speaker 1: How incredible I am. Only to realize that again it

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00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: was still so even after being among even in our

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Speaker 1: early years of dating with me and my wife, I

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00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: still think I was And even till this day, I

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00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: think that is so deep rooted. That idea of love

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Speaker 1: is grand gestures. Love is this big thing, the idea

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Speaker 1: of overgiving. Like, I think it's so deep rooted. It

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Speaker 1: takes a long time to be aware. Let go be conscious.

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Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't just disappear right right, And you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes for some people, love is grand justice. And you're

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Speaker 1: kind of touching on something that a lot of people

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00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: would benefit from reminding themselves of. We or I as

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Speaker 1: an individual love and express love in a certain way,

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Speaker 1: and I feel love and I receive love in a

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00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: certain way. It's pretty unlikely that you will end up

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00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: with someone that speaks love and receives love in the

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00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: exact way that you do. So it's like being in

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00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: this long term relationship. It sounds like you and your

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00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: wife have navigated how can I express my love to

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Speaker 1: her in a way that she will receive it, because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, well, this is how

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Speaker 1: I would like for someone to love me, So if

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Speaker 1: I keep doing that to her, she's going to like

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Speaker 1: it because I would like it. I think we're learning

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00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 1: that that is not love. Love is learning to express

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00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 1: it in the way that your partner receives it. And

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00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: I also realized that for me, the way I like

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00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 1: to receive love and give love is how my mom

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00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: gave me love. And so my mom would We've talked

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Speaker 1: about my mom before. My mom would always save up

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00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 1: to buy me the one big gift I wanted every

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Speaker 1: year for my birthday. And we didn't have a lot

395
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: growing up, so she would save up and she knew

396
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: what I wanted, and she always knew what I wanted.

397
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even have to tell her, she just knew.

398
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: And then on my birthday, I unwrapped this gift and

399
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 1: it would be exactly the thing that I wanted. And

400
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: that had been how I'd been loved. My mom did

401
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: give me time and we did have beautiful experiences, but

402
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: I remember gifts being a big thing in my home.

403
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: And then when I married my wife, it's like, gifts

404
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: are like not important in her home, Like they spent

405
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: quality time with each other and they her dad would

406
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: take the day off on her birthday and they'd go

407
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: out or whatever it may be. And so to me,

408
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: I couldn't get my head around how gifts couldn't be

409
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: important to someone because I was just like, gifts are

410
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: the best thing in the world, like, and it took

411
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: me a long time to also realize and even till

412
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: this day. Like one of the members of my team

413
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: brought me a gift for my birthday. My birthday was

414
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, and she found something that

415
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: I didn't need, I didn't want, but it was it

416
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: was like I felt of understanding. I was like, and

417
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 1: it was a new pair of shoes that were really

418
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 1: cool and they were this cool collab and they were

419
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: a bit rare, and I was like, this person, like

420
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: this stands me so well, and it was it's a

421
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: long time since I've received a gift that felt that way,

422
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: And it wasn't because of how much it cost. It

423
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't about It wasn't any of the It

424
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: wasn't grand because it was big or expensive. It was

425
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 1: grand because it was so thought through, like it was

426
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: the right pair of shoes. And I was like, that

427
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: was beautiful. And then a few years ago I had

428
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: a person in my life send me a life magazine

429
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: like the old ones that I don't think are in

430
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: print anymore, and it was signed about the Dali Lama

431
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: and they send that to me as a gift, and

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00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: I was like, this is the best gift ever, Like

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Speaker 1: this person understands me. And so I started to realize

434
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: that even my love for gifts wasn't because I wanted something.

435
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: It was because a gift made me feel understood, right,

436
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: it was it was That's what I was looking for,

437
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: was a sense of you know me, the sense you

438
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: got when your mom gave me that gift that she

439
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: knew what you wanted and needed. You didn't even have

440
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: to say it, yeah, she just like could see into you. Yeah.

441
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: Only realizing that that's very hard to do and putting

442
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: that pressure on my wife was not smart because it

443
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: takes a while for people to get to know you,

444
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: and you know, it takes a while for people to

445
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: know what kind of gifts you want. And also she

446
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: was learning at the same time, she was learning that

447
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 1: I needed gifts because in her eyes, spending good time

448
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: with each other was the gift. And in my head,

449
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 1: I was like, no, like the gifts the gift, and

450
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: time together is not the gift. And so it's really

451
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: interesting when two people are learning something at the same time.

452
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: And it's hard because when you're both learning the same

453
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: thing at the same time, you just like, you know,

454
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: knocking against each other. Yeah, finding that person, finding your person,

455
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: whether that's like your person of the season or your

456
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: person for the rest of your life. You're bringing together

457
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: two most likely very different families of origin. And it's

458
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: like your world view is shaped by the people that

459
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 1: raise you, and so you're touching on all these things.

460
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: You know, this is the way that I received love

461
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: from my mom. So this is the way that as

462
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: a small child becomes deeply ingrained in me at how

463
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: people are supposed to receive it too. And it sounds

464
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: like she had a different experience and like you said,

465
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: navigating and learning these things at the same time, much

466
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: more difficult than when you have like an apprentice and

467
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: somebody mentoring them, somebody knows something. But oftentime in relationships,

468
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: you're realizing together like hmm, I don't actually know anything

469
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: and neither to you, but we're trying to figure that

470
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: out while we're getting to know each other. Yeah, all

471
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: with this like deep desire and need to be seen.

472
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: That's so much of being loved. Yeah. Yeah, And I

473
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: found that I would often overlove my wife and then

474
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: make her feel guilty for not loving me the same

475
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: keeping tabs, keeping tabs. Yeah, can you give me an

476
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: example of overloving I would do something spontaneous like plan

477
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: a weekend activity or whatever it may be, But then

478
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: if she doesn't plan something the next weekend, I'm mad

479
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: at her and it's like that's you know, now, it

480
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: sounds stupid saying it, but it's like at that time

481
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: it felt really real, where it's like why are you're

482
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: not doing it back? But I haven't said I want that,

483
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: I haven't expressed that I need that. She was just

484
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: supposed to know. She was just supposed to know, and

485
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: she was just supposed to get it. And if I've

486
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: thought about it, how come she can't think about the

487
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: next thing, and it was like, and you just feel

488
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: you're so right, Like I think that's what's so hard

489
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: talking about it now, I'm like, I can see why

490
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: it's wrong, but when you're in that position, you feel

491
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: like it's so right where you're like, but I'm doing

492
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: all of this for us, and what do you do?

493
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: And I think I've always felt that way, Like that's

494
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: always been like a very deep rooted feeling of like

495
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: I do I work so hard for this relationship, but

496
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't think you do. And I saw this really

497
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: incredible image on social media today and it was inspiring

498
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: a story in me. I was like this this, you know,

499
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: this could be a story, but it's like imagine. Imagine

500
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: you're on a like a vacation and you're on a

501
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: really high mountain to up and unfortunately your partner slips

502
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: and falls and you go to grab them and you

503
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: thankfully you catch hold of them so they don't fall off.

504
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: And what ends up happening after that is one of

505
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: the rocks from behind you falls on your leg while

506
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: you're holding onto their hand, and a snake was going

507
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: up their legs. So this is the image that was

508
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: on social media. It was asking for the reflection of

509
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: the person being held is thinking why doesn't my partner

510
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: just lift me up, not realizing that that partner has

511
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: a rock on their leg, and the partner with the

512
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: rock on their leg is thinking, well, why doesn't this

513
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: person just lift their own weight a little bit, we

514
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: could do the help, not realizing that there's a snake

515
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: at their leg and they're scared of moving. And the

516
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: piece of art and whoever poster was trying to get

517
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: that question of, like, that's kind of what relationships are

518
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: like sometimes. How do you know whether your partner is

519
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: actually putting an effort into a relationship and putting in work.

520
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: If you're someone that constantly feels like you're you are

521
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: putting in the work, but you don't think they are,

522
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: how do you know whether you're right or whether you're

523
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: not right? How do you know anything? But you know

524
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: when you were describing like having planned this great weekend

525
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: and then expecting for someone else to return that gesture

526
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: and do the same thing, and then having the experience

527
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: of feeling like I put in so much work and

528
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: you haven't that mindset and that person is not tuning

529
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: in to pay attention to how that other person is

530
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: showing up and is doing that work. So it's like,

531
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: to answer that question, how do you know? If you

532
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: don't put in the effort to try to recognize from

533
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: like where they're coming from and see it from their perspective,

534
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: you may never know, and you may continue living this

535
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: life thinking that, like, nobody really cares about me because

536
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: you're not upping outside of yourself and so in relationship,

537
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: not just with like a romantic partner, but even your friends,

538
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: your family, colleagues, teammates, Like, you're depriving yourself of the

539
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: next level of connection by only thinking of it the

540
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: way from your stance, from your perspective. So I flip

541
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: that question back to you. It's like, how did you know?

542
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: How did you come to realize that she also loves

543
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: you very deeply when she wasn't getting you these big gifts. Yeah, no,

544
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's exactly that you hit the nail on

545
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: the head. It it was me starting to look at

546
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: how she contributed to the relationship, and I started to

547
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: realize there were so many ways she contributed to a

548
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: healthy relationship. It was She's the only person I've ever

549
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: been with who is extremely secure in herself and trusts

550
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: me and doesn't make me feel like She's never made

551
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 1: me feel like she doesn't trust me. And that's a

552
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: massive gift in a relationship, Like the idea that my

553
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: partner trusts me. I think that's a beautiful thing. When

554
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: things were tough, when we were struggling, and when we

555
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: were going through financial difficulties and everything like that, she

556
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: was fully there with me and was like, I trust you,

557
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm there with you, like whatever help you need. You know,

558
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: those were huge gifts in the relationship. I think even

559
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: when I first met her, you know, i'd left the

560
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: monastery like a year before that or less than a

561
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: year before that, and I didn't have a plan or

562
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have like my life figured out, and I

563
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: didn't even have a job when we first started dating,

564
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: and she was okay with that, and I was like,

565
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, there are so many huge gifts here that

566
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: I missed out on because I was looking at it

567
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: from this singular perspective of why doesn't she do this?

568
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: And that is exactly what I had to do, And

569
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: even till this day, I feel sometimes I have to

570
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: do that because those deep rooted ideas are so strong

571
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, what does my wife contribute to

572
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: this relationship? When you find there's so many things, but

573
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: you can very much live in a self centered world

574
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: of I'm the only one who contributes to this relationship.

575
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: And I think we're scared of noticing how other people

576
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: contribute because we're so attached to them contributing how we contribute,

577
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: and we're scared that it almost makes us weak. Like

578
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: I guess we don't want to be in a situation

579
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: where they're doing more than we are, because we see

580
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: that's what relationships are about. It's about doing equal for

581
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: each other. Whereas I've realized that I don't think the

582
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: relationship me and my wife have today is that we

583
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: do equal for each other. We just do different things

584
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: right for each other. For folks that are out there

585
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: still thinking that relationships about equal, work, to be able

586
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: to calculate that it's equal still means you're keeping tabs,

587
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: you're still like trying to keep some kind of score.

588
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: And that is where a lot of resentment grows and

589
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: a lot of pain and a lot of like expectation.

590
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: There's this idea that people talk about in therapy two

591
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: of like the way that we react to our own feelings,

592
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: or we react to other people. It comes from one

593
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: of two places. It's like, either we're reacting because we're

594
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,719
Speaker 1: fearful of something, so we're trying to avoid or prevent something,

595
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: or we're reacting out of love. Love for ourselves, love

596
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: for the person, love for the situation in itself, which

597
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: means acceptance of what it is. And you know that's

598
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: like a truly loving relationship, right, Is that you're not

599
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: behaving from fear of rejection, fear of oh, she doesn't

600
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: love me as much as I love her, Like that

601
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, isn't there? It sounds like you just

602
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: like had this knowing that she's there for you, I'm

603
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: there for her the trust. Yeah, And I think that

604
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: what you just said. I think there's such a fine

605
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: line between that I do things out of fear and

606
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: I do things out of love because a lot of

607
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: the times things that we think look like love are

608
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: actually just fear in disguise. So you're like, I can,

609
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: I can? You know, sometimes like you want to plan

610
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: a big birthday not because you love the person, but

611
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: because you're scared that they'll be sad. Like that's not love, Like,

612
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: is it? Or is it is that, like you know,

613
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like are you basing your intention on

614
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: you want them to be happy or you don't want

615
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: them to be mad? And sometimes we sometimes we create

616
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: that and other people too, where I've had past relationships

617
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: where I did things because I was scared of them.

618
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: I was scared of what would happen if they got angry,

619
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: and therefore you keep doing the thing. Now, you mentioned

620
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: like overloving, overcompensating, So maybe one of these past relationships

621
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: or some like what can you recall about something that

622
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: you were overcompensating for from fear? I guess a lot

623
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: of it is just staying in a situation that doesn't

624
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: like I remember, I had one relationship where I'd turned

625
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: up on time, I'd made a plan, I'd come up

626
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: with a right evening, and the person would not appreciate

627
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: the plan. They would disrupt the plan, they would want

628
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: to go home early. We drive home, and they wouldn't

629
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: talk to me home the whole way. And then you

630
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: do that week after week after week because you just

631
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: didn't want to let them down. And so you're not

632
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: doing that because you love them, You're doing it because

633
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: you're scared that you're going to lose them. But then

634
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: it's like, why would you be scared of losing someone

635
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: like that? But you get wrapped up in that belief

636
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: that you upset them some way, like you did something wrong.

637
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: And I mean, at least with that one, I realized

638
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: that I wasn't doing anything wrong. But it's really interesting

639
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: how you work differently when you have high confidence in

640
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: a relationship versus low confidence. And I think in the

641
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: beginning stages when I've had low confidence in relationships, because

642
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: you want the other person to like you, you'll keep

643
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: tolerating bad behavior because you want to be liked so

644
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: bad and you're only acting in a nice way because

645
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: you're scared of losing them because you think that them

646
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: being with you is the only reason that you're liked.

647
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: Does that make sense as an example, Yeah, And you know,

648
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: if you're entering or trying to maintain a relationship and

649
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 1: you have low self esteem, you don't have very high

650
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: confidence in yourself. A lot of people have described just

651
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: will anybody ever want to be with me? So it's

652
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: like this might be the last person that I have

653
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: a chance for, So I can't ruin it because I

654
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: don't want to be alone, like so many people don't

655
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: want to be alone. We fear that. There's a metaphor

656
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: I think of is just like, you know, we have

657
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: these glasses here, and when you enter a relationship, you're

658
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: coming in with a glass, and if you're coming in

659
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: with an empty one, you kind of have this like

660
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: very parched expectation for the other person to fill it

661
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: for you. And to constantly expect someone else to fill

662
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: it for you means they are depleting their own. But

663
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: you know, when you both come with a full glass

664
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: and there is no expectation to fill that for each other,

665
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: now you can love out of the abundance of having

666
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: it for yourself. Yeah, and now this like need or

667
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: expectation to fill it isn't there. It's just now we're

668
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: like two full people, two whole people that can live

669
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: life together, navigate life together, grow together. If that's something

670
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 1: that's important to you, be content together, if that's what's

671
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: important to you. You know, the early relationship, it really

672
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: sounds like you were coming into it with glass empty.

673
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: I also think at that age I just love the

674
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: chase too. I think there was something about like that

675
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: proving to someone that you were worthy. I think there

676
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: was something about that was interesting. Was it the chase,

677
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: like something about that pursuit that's interesting, Or do you

678
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: think you got like reinforced when you finally got this

679
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: thing that you were chasing, or I think it comes

680
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: back to the it's come back kind of like gift

681
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: mentality too. It's like when you see someone as a

682
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: thing to get right, Like it's the idea of And

683
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: that's what gift mindset is worrying sometimes because you your

684
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: constantly work and that I've definitely like when I unpacked

685
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: that I really I really realized that I loved the

686
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: element of surprise. I love surprises. I genuinely love surprises

687
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: till this day. And I realized that anyone could have

688
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: the opportunity to surprise me in a loving, conscientious way.

689
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: So like I feel like the idea of like saving

690
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: up for the thing you want and then when you

691
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: get it, you're like, it wasn't that great anyway. And

692
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: I think we all feel that way with things. Things

693
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: never live up to their height. The joy and the

694
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: pleasure of a thing is very short lived. We know that,

695
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: but sometimes I think we're programmed to believe that relationships

696
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: and people are like that as well, where it's like, well,

697
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: once you get that person, then you'll be happy, and

698
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: you you almost treat it like a achievement. And I

699
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: think that in my teens that was definitely there, and

700
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: I needed some people who were pro rejectors, were professional

701
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: rejecting me to help me learn that that didn't always work,

702
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: Like that wasn't a good path to take. We're saying,

703
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: like the neural transmitter dopamine, Like dopamine is something that's

704
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: released when something good happens, like when we're our reward

705
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: receptors in our brain, like getting the thing that we

706
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: were pursuing, and we do feel good, but it's momentary

707
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: and it's like it's our bodies like training us to

708
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: continue pursuing good stuff because we want to feel good.

709
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: But then in a long lasting partnership and relationship, a

710
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: lot of times it doesn't feel good. So can you

711
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about like relationships when it

712
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: doesn't feel good, how do you know that you're supposed

713
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: to keep going? Like what makes it worth fighting for?

714
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: That's even a strange term for it. Yeah, that's no.

715
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: I've thought about that a lot, actually, because I'd said

716
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: that my marriage right now is the only relationship I've

717
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: ever worked beyond that point. And I realized that there

718
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: were so many relationships earlier in my life that I

719
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: just tapped out of because I was like, I don't

720
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: want to do this anymore, Like why are we wasting

721
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: our time? Why are we doing this? I think there's

722
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: a couple of things. I think one is that the

723
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: other person also wants to work on it in a

724
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: real way, So you want to work on it and

725
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: the other person wants to work on it. I think

726
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: what I found in previous relationships is I didn't want

727
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: to work on it, and someone says they want to

728
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: work on it, but they don't really want to work

729
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: on it and themselves. And I think that's the question.

730
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: It's like, am I willing to work on myself for

731
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: this person? It's not am I willing to work on

732
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: this relationship? It's am I willing to work on myself

733
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: for this person? And is that person willing to work

734
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: on themselves for me? And I think that's where I

735
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: feel with my wife right now. I'm like, at this

736
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 1: point in our relationship, I know she wants to work

737
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: on herself for me. Is she'll say that? And I

738
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: know I want to work on myself for her. So

739
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: that's one thing that I definitely have looked for. And

740
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: I've seen that difference in past relationships in this relationship,

741
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: in past relationships where I didn't work out or where

742
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: you didn't push through, it's because ultimately, I felt, no

743
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: matter what I did, this person would never be convinced

744
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: I loved them. So I dated a lot of people

745
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: that I felt that even if I did what they

746
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: wanted me to do, and even if I tried my

747
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: best to love them in the way they want to

748
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: be loved, they still were unconvinced that I loved them

749
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: as well, because to them, they were still going through

750
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: that process of filling their cup. So no matter how

751
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: much I filled their cup, they always felt thirsty or

752
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: they felt parched, and I was just like, Okay, so

753
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense because no matter what I do,

754
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: this person would never be convinced. So I can't keep

755
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: working on this. Whereas within my current relationship today, I'm like,

756
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: Raley doesn't demand a lot, and she's quite full already,

757
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: and I think I'm the same back with her, and

758
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like a sense of like, oh, well,

759
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: everything's a bonus, like everything's exciting, everything's fresh all when

760
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: things are tough, let's get back to figuring out what

761
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: is it that currently is making things tough. But there's

762
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: an underlying feeling of you love me enough and I

763
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: love you enough, if that makes sense. There's not a

764
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: sense of feeling that emptiness, and I think there's just

765
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: an open space to talk about it without judgment. And

766
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: they're getting ugly, Like I have like difficult conversations with

767
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: my wife, and I'll say to her, like I have

768
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: a rule that since we've been together, I always say

769
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: to him, like, if the relationship is not going in

770
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: a direction we both wanted to, I want you to

771
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: tell me, and I'll tell you. And so I've sat

772
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: down with it, and I'd be like, I don't like

773
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: where this relationship is going right now, Like this isn't

774
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: the relationship by one? Is it the relationship you one?

775
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: If it isn't, what are you willing to get it

776
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: to where you want it to be? And if it isn't,

777
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: what am I willing to get it to where we

778
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: want it to be? And what do we want it

779
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: to be? And so I think we have that conversation

780
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: regularly like you know, at least once or twice a year,

781
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: because you're naturally going to go off track, like that's

782
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: you can never just be on track. And I think

783
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: in other relationships, not only did we assume we'd always

784
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: be on track, I think when we went off track,

785
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: we were very unhealthy. And how we talked about it,

786
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: and at least with my wife, I think there's a

787
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: sense of humility from both sides in saying we got

788
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: this wrong, let's try again, let's shift this, And so

789
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: I think a sense of lack of ego makes it

790
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: easier to work on it continuously, whereas if you both

791
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: did just have an ego all the time that you're

792
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: doing everything right and the other person's wrong, then that

793
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: discourages a relationship. And this is where this like cliche

794
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: thing of like, oh well, my therapist said that I

795
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: need to use eye statements. So if folks have heard

796
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: of this, it's like this comes from coming into maybe

797
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: like a emotionally charged topic with someone you really care about,

798
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: and not starting with the you did this, you make

799
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: me do this, you make me feel this like you

800
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: are whatever. That's like very like blame centric language, and

801
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: you mentioned humility. It's like coming into the conversation like

802
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: humbled by. I'm not going to put actions and intentions

803
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: in your mouth. I'm just going to show up with

804
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: how I feel about it. And that's what I statements are,

805
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: I feel so and so when you do this, I

806
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: would like when so and so, I am expressing what

807
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: my needs are and this is what I think you

808
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: can do to help me meet those two And that's

809
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: that's where that thing comes from, right that I statements,

810
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: it's it's very important to show up as you, not

811
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: you are the one that's going to make this all better. Yeah. Yeah,

812
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: I've I've always had my own little version of that.

813
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: I've always said, instead of you and me, use us

814
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: and we. And so when I'm thinking about constructively moving

815
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: away from the conflict or moving moving forward with it,

816
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: I'd always say, what are we willing to do for

817
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: this relationship? And what is something that's important to both

818
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 1: of us? And that way now where a team we're

819
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: working on it together, where we're solving this, rather than like, well,

820
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: you make me feel like this and you do this

821
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: wrong or you and it's almost like saying, well, there's

822
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,479
Speaker 1: no responsibility on my end, whereas I often go we're

823
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: pretty much both struggling with this. How are you struggling

824
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: with it? Right, and then giving the opportunity but then

825
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: going we're both struggling with this. It's not like a

826
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: you and me, it's and so I think shirking responsibility

827
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: has always been hard to build with someone who you

828
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: feel is just always making it your fault or you're

829
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: making it their fault. I don't think you can get

830
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: past that after a couple of years, because it's hard,

831
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: you know. And I think with my wife too, I

832
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: think we if we have a fall into those patterns,

833
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: we're constantly trying to say okay, okay, wait we can

834
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: see ourselves moving into that pattern and then try and

835
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: come back. All the other side is you just get

836
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: numb from everything right Like that I think is also unhealthy,

837
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: where you don't feel anything about anything, you're just indifferent,

838
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: and that's not a loving relationship either. So I think

839
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: some people may not experience extreme conflict, but I think

840
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: some people extreme experience indifference where you don't feel any

841
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: different whatever happens with your partner. Man, You're right, Indifference

842
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: apathy in a relationship I think is sometimes even more

843
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: like slippery slope dangerous than having hateful feelings towards your partner,

844
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: because that means you still have song and a passion there.

845
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: I really like what you're saying about using this WEE

846
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: language versus you versus me, because this is something that

847
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,959
Speaker 1: people can expect in couples therapy. Also is you come

848
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: in and you start learning how to reframe you versus me,

849
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: I versus you. It's we versus the problem, right, And

850
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: so I really like that, and I tend to use

851
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: that kind of language with my clients, like when I'm

852
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: trying to express something to help my client feel like

853
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: they're not alone in the struggle. You know, I'm going

854
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: to do a lot of things to try to normalize.

855
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: This is like this experience of helping the client feel

856
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: like they're not the only person in the world to

857
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: experience this. So I don't always say, like, yeah, people

858
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: experience anxiety that way. I say, we experience anxiety in

859
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: that way. We tend to and then the list off

860
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: whatever symptoms people have. So I like this idea of

861
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: bringing some attention to the collective experience of us. And

862
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's like really easy to want to just

863
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: go the I me route, especially in Western cultures. This

864
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: is a way that we're raised, This is a way

865
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: that we're socialized to be an independent, unique and individual,

866
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: which those things are great, especially in relationship. There isn't us,

867
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: There isn't we. We're doing this here. We're choosing each

868
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: other every day, which is not easy. Yeah, And I

869
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 1: think I realized that exactly what you're saying during actually

870
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: the week of my wedding. And you know, I know

871
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: a lot of friends, family team members that are preparing

872
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: for a wedding right now, and I don't think everyone

873
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: talks about enough openly how stressful weddings are. Where weddings

874
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: are meant to be the best day of your life,

875
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: They're meant to be all these exciting things, and they are,

876
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: but they also have a lot of stress leading up

877
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: to them. The week of I remember, you know, everyone

878
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: has so many opinions and family wants you to do

879
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: it this way, and the other family wants you to

880
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,959
Speaker 1: do this way, and both people are holding together their

881
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: families opinions and values and rituals and traditions as well

882
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: as their own, and it can be a really I

883
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: feel like marriages nearly break people up because they're so

884
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: intense and stressful, and I remember saying that exacting to

885
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: rather the week we got married, where I was just like,

886
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: this is how it's always going to be. There's always

887
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: going to be so many people who have opinions about

888
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: how we should do this and how we should have

889
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: done that, and more importantly, people are going to tell

890
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: you how I should be different and people are going

891
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: to tell me how you should be different. And I

892
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: was like, the only two people that need to agree

893
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: on me and you, and then we need to make

894
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: sense of everything else that's going on because and if

895
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: we don't set that habit now, we're going to constantly

896
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: be lost and struggling. And I think that was the

897
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: week where we were able to admit that there were

898
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: people in our lives that wanted what was best for

899
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: us according to them, but not best for us, and

900
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: we were the only ones who could decide what is

901
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: best for us by knowing ourselves and knowing each other.

902
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just think all of these experiences in

903
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: life are helping you get there, but you have to

904
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: use them as a way of not looking at it

905
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: as me versus you, as you said, you have to

906
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: look at it as like, well, what can we learn

907
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: from this? What can we grow from this? What are

908
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: we to solve with this? And I think that's constantly

909
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: been my approach, at least in my post month life,

910
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: of whenever there's an issue, it isn't their problem or

911
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: my problem. And I think that's the issue, right. You

912
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: literally have to obliterate that thought after time where it's like,

913
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: this isn't a you issue or me issue. This is

914
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: something we are dealing with and how do we figure

915
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: it out? And I think if you say that the

916
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: other person doesn't want to figure it out or doesn't

917
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: see it, that's where you start going. Well, I don't

918
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: know where this is going, because I think there has

919
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: to be a collective responsibility. It's just like it's a

920
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: huge metaphor here. It's not just about our spouse or

921
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: a romantic partner. It's like so much of what you're

922
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: reflecting on would be so helpful for society as a whole. Right,

923
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: if we all could adopt some more of this us

924
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: versus the problem mentality, I think that would be really

925
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: really helpful for a lot of people. And it seems

926
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: like this is like a value and a notion that

927
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: I think that you try to have an impact on. Yeah,

928
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: I think it's easier to choose a side. It's easy

929
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: to pick a side and stick with it, and pick

930
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: a story and stick with it. It's harder to hold

931
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: two seemingly opposite ideas and figure out how they connect

932
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: and how they correlate. But I think that all of

933
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: us would agree that if you look at any relationship

934
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: in your life, you know you had something to do

935
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: with it and the other person has something to do

936
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: with it. I don't think there's ever been anything in

937
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: the world that is completely one sided until it gets

938
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: you know that. I mean, I'll check that back. I

939
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: think there may be certain things that are completely one sided,

940
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: and you have to be aware of those and be

941
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: careful of those in your own relationships. But I can

942
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: definitely say in my life at least, that most things

943
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: have been two sided, and you can see two hands

944
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: in all of it. Yeah, and you know the I

945
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: versus you mentality. It's like, sometimes it feels like it's

946
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: emotionally easier to take that path because I'm putting guards

947
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: up and protecting myself from whatever the US we mentality.

948
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: Like you said, it means that you have to own up,

949
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: to take accountability for your part in this, which can

950
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: be very uncomfortable for people. It's very painful sometimes to

951
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: confront this idea that you're not always making the best choices,

952
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: that you have done things that are hurtful to people.

953
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: A lot of us just like don't want to admit that.

954
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: We think it puts you in a position of weakness,

955
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: and yes, with a unhealthy partner, it does, right, And

956
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: I think that's part of how you know where it's

957
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: like if you disclose vulnerably, hey I think I messed

958
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: this up, let's talk about it, and they're like, yeah, look,

959
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: you know you already know you messed it up, like

960
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: you got it wrong like that. If someone uses that

961
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: in that way, then yeah, that is that can be

962
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: a hunhealthy relationship. Whereas if someone goes, I'm glad you

963
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: noticed that, but I know I'm responsible for this too.

964
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: There's something that can be built there, and I think

965
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: you need someone and not everyone can do that in

966
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: the moment. Not everyone's going to do that when you're

967
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: having the fight. Now everyone's going to do that in

968
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: the argument. Sometimes people need more time and knowing that

969
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: is important too, because not everyone in the moment is

970
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: able to be that vulnerable straight away. Yeah, I think

971
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: that to me, this has been really helpful today and

972
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: useful today because you know, I think what you said

973
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: about always feeling like we're the one doing every all

974
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: the work, and those kind of mindsets can really lose

975
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: a good thing. We've also talked about some of the

976
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: unhealthy things to watch out for, and so I think

977
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: it's it's just a healthy discussion because I think relationships

978
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: are constantly They're constantly going on in our life, so

979
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: you never get to a place where you're like, we

980
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 1: mastered that, now we're on to the next thing. These

981
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: things are all so deep rooted that I'm like, I'm

982
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: dealing with these things on a daily basis with my

983
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: wife because you're just living with another human being, another mind,

984
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: another person, and you've got to constantly refresh these ideas.

985
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. Yeah, I've genuinely appreciated refreshing

986
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: some of these again ideas that I'm conscious of, but

987
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: it's useful talking it out with someone and hearing your

988
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: your take on them too. Yeah, there's a big power

989
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: in articulating the stuff that's like going on in our

990
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: minds all the time. You talked about this, like this

991
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: is stuff that I already know, but there's difference between

992
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: like knowing and speaking expressing and like getting it out

993
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: in there for like another person to witness it. It

994
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: does something, So thank you for being open with me too.

995
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: Thank you everyone's been listening and watching. I hope that

996
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: we discovered some useful skills and tools for you to

997
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: apply in your relationships. I hope that you've got a

998
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: deeper sense and understanding of, you know, the simplicity of

999
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: therapy too. Where we turned into a conversation at one

1000
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: point and I was sharing my opinions and ideas, and

1001
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: I was getting to hear Hay Sue's opinions and ideas too.

1002
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: And I hope that this encourages you, a family member,

1003
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: a friend to seek advice, seek help, seek therapy if

1004
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: that's what they need, that's what they're looking for. Please

1005
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: pass this on to someone who may be on the

1006
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: fence of figuring out whether it's useful to them, and

1007
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: just these be encouraged to have their first session and

1008
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: see how it goes. Again, I want to give a

1009
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: big thank you to our partners a better help. I

1010
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: want to give a big thank you to Hey Sue

1011
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: for being here and always facilitating these sessions so wonderfully,

1012
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: and a big thank you to all of you've been

1013
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: listening and watching. I appreciate you trusting me with your time,

1014
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: but also I trust you so much, and so I've

1015
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: been opening up so vulnerably in these sessions. I trust

1016
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: you with that. Thank you so much. This episode was

1017
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: sponsored by better Help Online Therapy. Big thanks again to

1018
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: Hey Sue Joe, head of clinical operations at Better Help.

1019
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: So just so you know, this was a therapy session

1020
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: that you got to get a look inside of. But Hey,

1021
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: Sue Joe is not my therapy. We do not have

1022
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: a therapist client relationship. But I wanted to show you

1023
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: what a therapy session could look like. Also, just because

1024
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 1: you might hear something on the show that sounds similar

1025
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: to what you're experiencing, beware of self diagnosis. You want

1026
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnosis

1027
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: if that's important to you